In an argument with one of my friend about Arundhati Roys criticism of everything around her in this India , he replied:
EPILOGUE: In short, if I had to answer how my views are different than yours,the answer would be I am more inclined to a realist like Sardar Patel than an idealist like Arundhati Roy.That is because as I explained before,in real world,even the laws of physics need to be modified simple because ideal conditions never exist.
THIS IS MY ANSWER TO HIM:
Well let me ask you the question what is the aim of human life? Why we are here on this earth?? To be born, to eat, to make merry, to reproduce, to suffer old age and then die? Is this what we Homo sapiens made for? Then what is the difference between man and dog? If there is no progress, then what is the purpose of this great mind. If we die ,as we were born, without improving this world at all, then we better die at birth only!
Don’t you accept that ultimate aim for human life is the improvement of mankind?? To make a positive contribution to this world, to leave a mark for which generations to come benefit? Is not this better than any worldly pleasure? To work for a goal which gives you satisfaction and brings change in humanity!
For all those who glorify private selfishness over public, have you ever wondered what world would have been without those who didn’t care for others? From the start of the world, the most remarkable are the people who have contributed in human progress and not assimilating individual wealth. We are living in a new world because there was someone who thought of improvement and not just eat, shit and reproduce.
The change is the epitome of human progress. Without change we would have succumbed to natural changes and animal power. But its brain and its search for better which has made man challenge some of the unconquered terrains in the world history.
Within the human race it’s strive for the better, or in other words ideal which has produced some of the greatest leaders and a remarkable change in world history. The world has changed not because it changes automatically, but due to people who wanted world to be better than what it was during their time. It was their search for the ultimate – THE IDEAL which has brought giant leaps in human progress.
It’s the quest for the IDEAL which leads to changes in human history. Its only when people are dissatisfied with their present conditions that they look for something better, something more satisfying and stable. It is for this personal and social endeavor to achieve the ideal that man can dream now of conquering the nature!
From Marx to Arundhati Roy, from Gautam Buddha to Bhagat Singh, it was their search for ideal that gave milestones of Human development. It was their criticism of their surroundings, that flaws of present were identified to be removed in future. It was their quest for something better than man had hope and path to work upon. It was their guidance to the ideal that man found a purpose to live.
“Criticism and independent thinking are the two indispensable qualities of a revolutionary”- Shaheed Bhagat Singh
It was only due to dissatisfied slaves that slavery abolished. They were told world is not fair, it is not ideal , you have to face difficulties , accept it the way it is , have faith in God, he will give you a better life , you are suffering for your sins. But finally one Spartacus realized that all these are false hopes. An ideal world exists and no God, no Christ, no Vishnu avatar, no Allah’s messiah would ever come to provide this world. It is to be aimed for, fought for and finally cared for. It required sacrifice, bloodshed, change from the normal path, but it led to change progress and abolition of slavery. They lost initially, they suffered but they didn’t loose hope, they didn’t wait for some God to come. They fought for a better world and finally achieved it!!
The same story was repeated when men suffered under feudalism. Again they were told keep suffering, it’s due to your past sins, but they acted, fought and achieved their freedom.
It was the same love for IDEAL that man revolted against the Kings, considered to be the sons of God. It was this love that made them revolt and abolish cruel rituals and systems and established the democracy.
It was the same zeal- not to accept anything less than best- that made people revolt against imperialism. It was this spirit for ideal that few youth friends of Bhagat Singh revolted against mighty British empire- and became “amar Shaheed”.
And now it will be the same zeal of IDEAL which will make man revolt against exploitive capitalism. To try for a better world where all men are equal, no one kills another, there is no exploitation, and there is no misery. There are no capitalists and there are no poor labors. It is only when all men will be born equal, treated equal and die equal that IDEAL will be achieved. It will be a world where man will be free , there will be no misery , no sickness and no hatred!
It is definitely an IDEAL, but to try to achieve is what for we are here in this world. Not to wait for some Messiah , but to take up our arms and fight the enemy through our blood our sweat! The real is what we have achieved and ideal is what we have to achieve – because man never stops. In the same way as physics experiments are never stopped, they are conducted again and again to bring them as close to the ideal as possible.
IDEAL IS NOT TO BE ACHIEVED IN YOUR LIFETIME- IT IS TO BE AIMED FOR AND WORKED FOR – and it is this strive for the ideal, without any compromise, without any dilution, which gives the meaning to life!
Saturday, December 13, 2008
arguments abt THE END OF CAPITALISM
abhay
@ Kapil
a true communist or rather true human being will never fight for religion , he fights for hunger and poverty and equal rights to all.
Because for him it doesn't matter whether you are a Hindu or Muslim or Jew or Sikh, because in all religions its the rich who are happy and having the luxuries of life, while the poor suffer and die for religion!!
Throughout his life Bhagat singh opposed communal ism as he new it is the tool in the hands of politicians to divert peoples attention from underdevelopment to stupid issues..
that is what is happening now again , people are getting polarized in the name of religion while both Congress and BJP are busy in making money when they come to power by selling our nation to US companies .
I oppose SIMI and RSS in equal terms . A terrorist should be punished, religion doesnt mater in that. but at the same time to label an entire community as terrorist is naive and stupid , and it leads to destruction of our own country!!
Do u feel buddy that ABJ Abdul kalam or A R REhman are terrorist ??
if no , how do u know Zafar or Truely here are terrorist??/
I will suggest you read Arundhati Roys books then u will realize she opposes all communal parties and talks about true development !!
busy abhay
@ kapil
now a clarification about communists of India today..
But i hope u dont mean that CPI (M) , CPI and other bunch of jokers, those good for nothing who are completely opposite of a communist. A communist can never support SEZ and CPI (M) has killed its own people for SEZ.
they do only bakwas and nothing else. they are pseudo communists like their Chinese brothers and Lula of Brazil who preach Communism and follow Capitalism. Muh mein Ram bagal mein Churi.....
But there are people who are asking right questions and giving right answers , for that u will have to read Roy's books yaar!!
Sumit
abhay
@ Sumit
ya i am happy to side with arundhati roy atleast she is living in India and working for Indians,,
and i will suggest u to leave this community and join SARAH PAULIN community your comments there will be more correct and appropriate !!
yeah this is what you communists can do well.. If you have no answer to the the issues raised by an individual then attack his persona on flimsiest of excuses....
I do not need any certificate of indianness from birdbrains like you...
Lets not forget
@truely
I may have gone overboard with my last comments but we(lot of hindus) are frustrated, angry and feeling helpless at the attack on Hindus from all quarters...
If this frustration is not addressed, then this anger will explode like a volcano sweeping away everything that comes in its path... be aware of that and I am definately not being overboard now with my comments....
Just look at Abhay, Apoorv and other Hindu "sounding" names. These guys may not be practising Hindus but they do hav hindu sounding names.. But they are most of the time criticising hindus, bashing bjp, abusing RSS and loo behold are still alive and kicking....
Now imagine the same scenario where a muslim criticizes Islam? Next day He will be on Internet with his neck being severed from the rest of the body...This is the diff..
When i say reform...i mean havng the tenacity to take in crticizm and have an open mind to other religion and ability for peaceful coexitence....which is completely lacking...
Last time when this happened was with Hitler's nazi party when the entire community when fascist and crazy.. same is happening with u guys..
so ponder over and think...
Lets not forget
@abhay
I am in consonance with ur communism comments..
But here is the problem:::
On a diffrent posts in a diifferent thread u had posted quite derogatory, blasphemous, disgusting and unprintable commnets abt Lord Ram...
U posted those bcoz of the rape of nun in Orissa. Ok. Now try to post a comment on Islam bcoz of suicide bombings, terrorism, Women in Burkha, Polygamy, brutal purging of other religions etc. etc. etc. etc..... I know u care for ur well being ,,,,,
U frequently abuse Hindus, bash BJP RSS 20 times in a day...BUt never try to analyse why BJP is the SECOND LARGEST party in India and was in power in 1999 although it came into existence only in 1980's ... what is the cause of the metoiric rise...
U have an alibi in the form of "communal politics" but then y do people buy this communal politics.. its bcoz majorityof hindus feel threatened and feel helpless...
and it gets manisfested in votes for bjp and now acts of retribution and revenge terrorism...
Beating BJP black and blue will never solve this problem.... u need to ANALYSE and change ur stand....
Click to chat truly
@Kapil
I may have gone overboard with my last comments
glad that u accepted the truth
but we(lot of hindus) are frustrated, angry and feeling helpless at the attack on Hindus from all quarters...
what has frustrated and angered you guys so much
If this frustration is not addressed, then this anger will explode like a volcano sweeping away everything that comes in its path... be aware of that and I am definately not being overboard now with my comments....
are u talking about something like gujrat riots all over india
Just look at Abhay, Apoorv and other Hindu "sounding" names. These guys may not be practising Hindus but they do hav hindu sounding names.. But they are most of the time criticising hindus, bashing bjp, abusing RSS and loo behold are still alive and kicking....
'Just look at Abhay, Apoorv and other Hindu "sounding" names.'good sarcasm.
criticising hindues?????where???is hinduism limited to support bjp and rss.were bjp and rss formed by some god???then y??
Now imagine the same scenario where a muslim criticizes Islam? Next day He will be on Internet with his neck being severed from the rest of the body...This is the diff..
hey is salman rushdie and taslima nasrin dead...
When i say reform...i mean havng the tenacity to take in crticizm and have an open mind to other religion and ability for peaceful coexitence....which is completely lacking...
Last time when this happened was with Hitler's nazi party when the entire community when fascist and crazy.. same is happening with u guys..
so ponder over and think...
i told you we can discuss these things on some other community...not this one plz...
busy abhay
@ Sumit
Tere muh lagkar koi faida nahi
i wonder if tht masterni of urs.. Sarah Paulin ever raised any remarkable q except spending some 85million $ on her wardrobe...
u r not diff fm her...... so keep barking as always All the best
busy abhay
@ Kapil
I am really glad my friend that u r following my postings in other communities as well
DID u really read that post? Did u notice that q mark after the sentence Bhagwan Ram was a rapist???
I love bhagwan Ram , not as a god but as a remarkable individual , a person who fought against injustice but always followed the rules to toto.. that is why he is called Purushottam Ram . And what is happening people using his name are doing acts of Ravana . Raping a woman , don't u think these people are briniging a bad name to Ram more then Islamic terrorists?? i love Ram and i will denounce all those who use his name to do criminal acts..
now my view about Islam..... it is as stupid a religion as Judaism , Hinduism or Christianity. It also propagates many wrong things , other than good things like love all human beings. Mahummad left one of his many wives becoz she was left alone and came back with another carvan...they all are same .... preaching non sense..
and what makes Islam worst was its nature not to accept any criticism . And no wonder this makes Muslims allover the world most underdeveloped and illogical...
Now about Hinduism . what made Hinduism great was its flexibility and acceptance to other religions and that is why it survived against Buddhism , Islam and what not..
And this is exactly the reason why i critcize RSS becoz now they are chaging this nature of Hinduism... making it a fundamentalist religion and this will prove disaster for the country...
and finally who gains Congress and BJP alternately..
busy abhay
but then y do people buy this communal politics??????????
right q but nothing new Napoleon said " religion is a tool in the hands of poor to make fool out of common people."
Since birth u are told abt God and religion.... u saw people around u become fanatic for that and u follow their example...
If some party comes and tell u we will remove poverty from India , u will not pay any attention but if some one comes and says we will bring the glory back to Hinduism , u will immediately go and vote for that party..
Never caring what it is actually doing?? Is it working for the people? BJP did anything for the common man other than filling its own pockets??? same as congress
Religion is the easist way to incite the people and make them losse their common sense and then they cant see what is right and what is wrong...
who gains?? those bastards who spoiled the name of my Lord Ram!!!
busy abhay
FEAR
Fear is the root of all the evils.... and this is the thing explited worl over for generations
ever wondered why Aarushi case was so widely covered , while SUICIDE of ! lakh famrers in Maharahtra hardly figures anywhere in media???
Becoz u care damn about that farmers , but when u see Aarushi case u feel it happening it to someone next to ur home and this generates fear and this brings TRP ratings to channel.
But what is lost? while people remained glued to news channels thinking about Aarushi , millions of people die of hunger, no one questions why those farmers committed suicide? What is the reason and who is responsible??
http://www.countercurrents.org/sharma220607.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/shiva300407.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/gl-shiva150205.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/gl-shiva220205.htm
Since the starting of human civilization rulers have exploited this feeling of fear to gain political and economic gains for themselves. No wonder the max deaths in world are caused by religious wars, and they didnt involve only Islam.... u can check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Wars_of_Religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#Population_changes:_Wars_against_the_Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
The legacy continues today.....
islamic clerics say Islam is under threat , start Jihad against Kafirs. VHP says Hinduism is under threat , kill all the Muslims around u, Jews says they are under threat and keep exploiting millions of Palestinians, Christians say they are under threat and under the pretext of war on terror attack Iraq for oil and kill millions of innocent Iraqia in the bargain.
what they all are doing is exploit the fear in common men, let thim kill each other we will gain power and enjoy the riches. What happened to poverty and hunger , who cares , Religion is more imp than bread and Holy wars more imp than development!!!
APOORV
@ kapil
Do u really think that RSS is a true representative of Indian culture today or even of Hinduism???
And for ur info , even I denounce Terrorists killing in the name of Allah , but at the same time should i attack any muslim , because 1 Muslim is doing such acts?? things are not so simple as they appear my friend.....
in case u have inclination and time , i think this will explain my stand
http://apoorv-life.blogspot.com/2008/10/bomb-blast.html
@ Abhay
i fully agree with ur comments abt exploitation of fear ..... just hope all of our countrymen realize this and India , the land of Gautam Buddha, doesn't become the land of holy wars!!!
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Well, I m not following you on any community, but was actually part of that community but when i saw those comments, i decided to leave the community in disgust. I was seething in Anger but couldnt do much u know...
I am also glad that u have accepted the basic flaw in Islam which is its inability to take in criticism which has turned its followers the most obscrantists, illogocal and radical sections of our society and the entire world...
But would then link acts of radicalisation to Allah himself..Post a new thread about Allah linking terrorisn to him??Thats where u r wrong...
Why would a serving Lt Col in Indian Army choose to indulge in brutal acts of bombings and killings???
It is bcoz the Hindus feel it is time to Defend their motherland and their religion when the Congress League govt turned to minorities for their Bread and Butter and dont care abt them,,, it is utmost shameful but its true..
Also In the public domain, the communist leaders are sworn enemies of BJP and hindus... There is little difference between CPI/ CPI(M) and Muslim leaugue or Samajwadi Party...They are all gunning for minority votes.. They shd be ready to reform all religions not just hindus...
Analyse this::: The communist movement in India is older than the RSS and even as old as Congress . Then y is that it has pretty much FAILED in the political space and apart from one or 2 states has no presence elsewhere even after so many years???
The answer is simple... "THEY ARE NOT LIKEABLE".
1)They abuse Hindus all the time. They become Rationalist for Hindus and Religious for Muslims... They may be atheist but majority of the country is deeply religious... Look at communist govts eleswhere... they are not ALLERGIC to religion publicly and are not atleast not biased.. Mayb u can pass my message to them...
2) They crib aby old stuff all the time..
2) Look at it from this angle::: There is so much competition for Muslim votes... But there is only one party which goes for Hindu votes...U have more chances to win here..
busy abhay
@ kapil
Kya yaar i was expecting some gd , new ans but u repeated the same old communist stuff
Okk i repeat wat i said last abt so called Indian communists
@ kapil
now a clarification about communists of India today..
But i hope u dont mean that CPI (M) , CPI and other bunch of jokers, those good for nothing who are completely opposite of a communist. A communist can never support SEZ and CPI (M) has killed its own people for SEZ.
they do only bakwas and nothing else. they are pseudo communists like their Chinese brothers and Lula of Brazil who preach Communism and follow Capitalism. Muh mein Ram bagal mein Churi.....
But there are people who are asking right questions and giving right answers , for that u will have to read Roy's books yaar!!
busy abhay
now abt minoirty appeasement
What have ur above said parties have done for Muslims or for anyone else??
or what BJP has done for Hindus??
yaar point is all these parties are doing nothing for anyone except for themselves. They are just dividing the country like what Britishers did long back.
need is to stop them and not support 1 of them becoz they "speak" in favour of our religion.Because when BJP also comes to power , onion sells above Rs 60/kg, Bangaru Laxaman takes bribe and George Fernendes drinks money in arms deal, when our poor soldier die in KArgil.
they are as worthless as Congress/SP/BSP/CPI(M)/CPI or any other bunch of jokers.
U really feel BJP will do something for the Hindus if it comes to power?? Ok may be it will bring POTA , arrest more Muslims, then u feel India will become safe from terrorism?? No it will increase , I can give u this in writing need is for peace and justice and above all development.
see the state of India 60 years after independence
http://www.wakeupcall.org/administration_in_india/poverty_line.php
and all Congress/SP/BSP/CPI(M)/CPI plus ur BJP (which has ruled 5 yrs in centre and many yrs in state) did nothing except filling their own pockets
still u feel they will do something gd for India???
busy abhay
And lets us leave Communism and capitalism and religion
lets come to humanism. thts wat we are here for humanity to help people in distress
let it be any ism, but we should overcome poverty , hunger and underdevelopment.
and thing is none of our political parties are interested in this
see a study by great environmentalist Vandana Shiva
http://www.countercurrents.org/glo-shiva050404.htm
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Your views and ideas suggest a highly developed thinking mind and objective assessment of situations-especially the political ones...
Nobody can deny your statements as they are perfectly correct......
But dude, how do we correct the political situation which has taken our country into a completely different trajectory and inertia from where we may never be able to return back...
I am also not a die hard supporter of any particular party, including BJP.. but i am pissed off, angry and frustrated at the continued attacks on one party and religion by all concerned... As long as there is fairness and justice, people will be happy but we need to be careful that Injustices can lead to revolt ... and its not just one party or religion which has the sole right to feel "threatened, angry, helpless"".
Key is, "Justice without Prejudice"
So let me ask you this::: How do get out of the muddle that we find ourselve in??? How do we lead our country to path of peace and tranquility where there is justice and liberty for all???
busy abhay
@ Kapil
thanks buddy for ur comments
the first step of any solution is to first realize the problem and i think u are near to it!!!
I can understand ur frustration with everyone opposing pro-Hindu parties...as i am seeing it happening with most of the Hindus around me .....
there is a growing fear among Hindus and anger against Islamic terrorists.....
But the same thing holds in Muslims also- they are scared and alienated and in a cocoon , and this produces more terrorists !!!
thus this is a mutual process, why intellectuals oppose pro-Hindu more than Islamic??
1 There is no doubt that Islamic terrorists they are wrong , so there is no argument abt it but people supporting Hindu religious fanaticism - it can be argued and thts why there is more opposition
2. this is the birth of Hindu Fascism in India , the seeds which Britishers sowed , are bearing fruits now...and if it is not stopped now, it will be very dangerous for our country
well to explain it more u need to read history yaar... if u don't mind u can start with my blog...
there is a book by Nirad C chaudhari.... abt religious fundamentalism u can read tht ,
coming to ur q
So let me ask you this::: How do get out of the muddle that we find ourselve in??? How do we lead our country to path of peace and tranquility where there is justice and liberty for all???
well there is no direct ans i can give u...... becoz there is no 1 standard solution.... people are trying few things... like Medha Patekar ..........
dont get agitated
but seriously telling u , read the books of Arundhati Roy , they will give u gd insight of wats alternatives r there
becoz u also know if BJP comes to power, it is gng to increase the problem , because they themselves never want this problem to solves,because this is wat brings them to power and then they can make millions....
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Was tied up with some work, so a delayed response....
Well the hope is that, we people, amongst our small group atleast on Orkut, comes up with some plausible solution to the crisis facing our great nation...
To that effect, we need to understand why hindus are feeling the way they are and talking law into their own hands.... The reason has been the unbridled, unremorseful, unstoppable force of Islamic fundamentalism which has matured into Islamic terrorism... "Hindus are Reactionary in nature. They look at Taliban, Pakistan, our own minorities, and see that when these guys kill people, other people listen to them, they agree to their demands etc. So they are simply trying to MIMIC the same aggressiveness and brutality in their own functioning". How to stop this::: "Face Islamic terrorirm HEAD ON." For this the secularists need to throw the "BIASED ATTiTUDE" that so currently characterizes them.... Criticize and devote time to NEUTRALIZE extermism of any type...
So lets look at Islamic terrorism:::a lot of people including myslef are trying to understand whats causing Muslims all over the world to turn aggressive and start killing people..
You have mentioned in ur piece""But the same thing holds in Muslims also- they are scared and alienated and in a cocoon , and this produces more terrorists !!!"
Consider this:::
Bali, Indonesia in 2001. More than 200 humans were butchered and massacared in a series of blasts??? Indoneasia is the largest Islamic country, so y on earth would they feel in ur words "scared and alienated and in a cocoon"
My analysis suggests this is a worldwide phenomenon where the wahhabi sect of ISlam is trying to impose its will over the entire world through the means of the sword...as they know best...
The same is being done in India albeit at a smaller scale..and after many many years of subjugation, Hindus are getting militairized and its understandable as they are doing it in Self defence...
Lets not forget
You suugested few personalities and their work towards possible solution roadmap...
Nirad Chaudhary, Arundhati, Medha, Romilla Thapar...
You need to read the following to understand the perspective from the other end:
http://www.indpride.com/screaming%20hatred%20against%20hindus.html
Ashok Singhal, Praveen Tagodia, etc..
While the former are far left extermists while the latter are far right extremists...
And why shd i read their books and implement their suggestions.??..they abuse Hindus, want to terminate our culture,, Neutralise the rise of BJP while turning BLIND to ISLAMIC FASCISM... There is no meeting point my dear friend as they are extremists in their own sense
Lets not forget
Let me take you back to an era in the 80s when proabaly we were not born or were very young..
In the 80s, India faced a brutal terrorism which was of a differeent hue and flavour:::
Sikh Terrorism.
It was as brutal as any terrorism can be.. And Today where is that terrorism?
It was defeated.. it was beaten by few brave soldiers of Hind who didnt care for their lives. It was not solved by Arundhati and Medha. If these ladies had their way then our country would have been definately been killed by now...
it was defeated because there was RETALIATION to every AGGRESSION but the people were also given an option to return to non violent ways...
A case in point is also Chechanya, Russia...
Lets not forget
@abhay
On a completely different note,,, when i visited one of you blogs that you have displayed on your home page, i was stuck by one thought :::
Almost all the articles in the whole blog are so ONE SIDED.. If the blog owners believe in democracy and healthy debate... there has to be some views from the other side as well.....It was astonishing to read the articles...AMAZINGLY ALL THE ARTICLES HAVE ONE UNDERLYING CURRENT:: HINDUS ARE WORSE THAN ANIMALS, RISE OF MILITANT HINDUISM, NEUTRALIZING HINDU FASCISM, TERROR ATTACKS A RESULT OF GUJARAT, BABRI MASJID, AYODHYA, ORISSA, BANAGLORE, KERALA, CHICKMANGALORE, ETC. ETC. ETC....
havent we heard these before::: One FEEDBACK::: Variety is the spice of life::: BRING SOME DIVERGENT VIEWS...
busy abhay
Comeon yaar I am not writing a fictional story here to get some popularity . THis is not a shobha DEs article - that i need to add variety to it. I will only support what i believe is right and oppose what I believe is wrong- though they may differ from your views!
well you have again repeated the same old things never thinking back - i have opposed pseudo communist partied and islamic org in same tone as BJP and Congress.
So there is no point in repeating things. i am writing few things ion my blog- in case they appeal to u , u may read them-else you can continue with ur views
Gopi
Capitalism is already dead
What we have here is not capitalism.
If it were really market economics then all these big corporates would have closed down (taking lot of the populace with them) and would have been replaced by new corporates. That would have been "free and fair" market. What we see here is all corporates, who would scream blue murder if government were to "interfere" in businesses/markets, are running with huge begging bowl to the government to bail them out with tax-payers hard-earned money!!
Take UBS for instance. It was notorious for paying Swiss citizens one of the lowest savings deposit rates in the world. Now it wants Swiss citizens to pay for its bad times. Any guesses what happens when the good times are back? (Will UBS pay Swisses good or atleast competitive deposit rates?)
One of the critics of the US bailout bill had said that in Capitalism government should not interfere at all. The government interference only shows its NOT capitalism. Its the flawed, self-serving logic (not even theory) of these corporations: Dont stop of us from making money by hook or crook but please help us when we are not making money.
Gopi
Following up with the example of UBS.
Read this[http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7741561.stm]. While investors were losing money, UBS executives paid themselves big bonuses and were finally bailed out by Swiss tax-payers.
This isn't capitalism or free market; its sheer fraud.
An average citizen of a capitalist state has been cheated like this since years.
Jawahar
Abhay dude!!, you are my hero!! [:)]
Impeccable arguments, unbiased understanding of facts!! I applaud your perspicacity and I share the pain you go through, looking at the state of affairs in our country, infact the world-over!!!
The glorification of ideas like nationalism, communalism, and what not, very shrewdly employed by the rich few to divert the masses from the immediate injustice catered to them on a daily basis.
I want to let you know that I totally empathize with your view point and I am happy to see you voice your opinions with the incisive clarity that you did. Keep at it my friend!!
Jawahar
If I may add..
Abhay, in addition to the solution you were suggesting, the first thing is awareness, awareness that has to spread among our young. History, unbiased and with all the right perspectives, so that people dont indulge in the mindless hatred that our country is headed towards. Awareness of unbiased facts, and proper historical tutelage, what our country stands for, if you may...
Dec 11 (2 days ago)
Jawahar
Also, for the people who are under-informed, rather ill-informed, looking the the above posts!, Please watch this videos to gain some insight!
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money+masters&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#
Please make sure you understand what capitalism stand for and its track record in the last 500 years before you take any stand!!
@ Kapil
a true communist or rather true human being will never fight for religion , he fights for hunger and poverty and equal rights to all.
Because for him it doesn't matter whether you are a Hindu or Muslim or Jew or Sikh, because in all religions its the rich who are happy and having the luxuries of life, while the poor suffer and die for religion!!
Throughout his life Bhagat singh opposed communal ism as he new it is the tool in the hands of politicians to divert peoples attention from underdevelopment to stupid issues..
that is what is happening now again , people are getting polarized in the name of religion while both Congress and BJP are busy in making money when they come to power by selling our nation to US companies .
I oppose SIMI and RSS in equal terms . A terrorist should be punished, religion doesnt mater in that. but at the same time to label an entire community as terrorist is naive and stupid , and it leads to destruction of our own country!!
Do u feel buddy that ABJ Abdul kalam or A R REhman are terrorist ??
if no , how do u know Zafar or Truely here are terrorist??/
I will suggest you read Arundhati Roys books then u will realize she opposes all communal parties and talks about true development !!
busy abhay
@ kapil
now a clarification about communists of India today..
But i hope u dont mean that CPI (M) , CPI and other bunch of jokers, those good for nothing who are completely opposite of a communist. A communist can never support SEZ and CPI (M) has killed its own people for SEZ.
they do only bakwas and nothing else. they are pseudo communists like their Chinese brothers and Lula of Brazil who preach Communism and follow Capitalism. Muh mein Ram bagal mein Churi.....
But there are people who are asking right questions and giving right answers , for that u will have to read Roy's books yaar!!
Sumit
abhay
@ Sumit
ya i am happy to side with arundhati roy atleast she is living in India and working for Indians,,
and i will suggest u to leave this community and join SARAH PAULIN community your comments there will be more correct and appropriate !!
yeah this is what you communists can do well.. If you have no answer to the the issues raised by an individual then attack his persona on flimsiest of excuses....
I do not need any certificate of indianness from birdbrains like you...
Lets not forget
@truely
I may have gone overboard with my last comments but we(lot of hindus) are frustrated, angry and feeling helpless at the attack on Hindus from all quarters...
If this frustration is not addressed, then this anger will explode like a volcano sweeping away everything that comes in its path... be aware of that and I am definately not being overboard now with my comments....
Just look at Abhay, Apoorv and other Hindu "sounding" names. These guys may not be practising Hindus but they do hav hindu sounding names.. But they are most of the time criticising hindus, bashing bjp, abusing RSS and loo behold are still alive and kicking....
Now imagine the same scenario where a muslim criticizes Islam? Next day He will be on Internet with his neck being severed from the rest of the body...This is the diff..
When i say reform...i mean havng the tenacity to take in crticizm and have an open mind to other religion and ability for peaceful coexitence....which is completely lacking...
Last time when this happened was with Hitler's nazi party when the entire community when fascist and crazy.. same is happening with u guys..
so ponder over and think...
Lets not forget
@abhay
I am in consonance with ur communism comments..
But here is the problem:::
On a diffrent posts in a diifferent thread u had posted quite derogatory, blasphemous, disgusting and unprintable commnets abt Lord Ram...
U posted those bcoz of the rape of nun in Orissa. Ok. Now try to post a comment on Islam bcoz of suicide bombings, terrorism, Women in Burkha, Polygamy, brutal purging of other religions etc. etc. etc. etc..... I know u care for ur well being ,,,,,
U frequently abuse Hindus, bash BJP RSS 20 times in a day...BUt never try to analyse why BJP is the SECOND LARGEST party in India and was in power in 1999 although it came into existence only in 1980's ... what is the cause of the metoiric rise...
U have an alibi in the form of "communal politics" but then y do people buy this communal politics.. its bcoz majorityof hindus feel threatened and feel helpless...
and it gets manisfested in votes for bjp and now acts of retribution and revenge terrorism...
Beating BJP black and blue will never solve this problem.... u need to ANALYSE and change ur stand....
Click to chat truly
@Kapil
I may have gone overboard with my last comments
glad that u accepted the truth
but we(lot of hindus) are frustrated, angry and feeling helpless at the attack on Hindus from all quarters...
what has frustrated and angered you guys so much
If this frustration is not addressed, then this anger will explode like a volcano sweeping away everything that comes in its path... be aware of that and I am definately not being overboard now with my comments....
are u talking about something like gujrat riots all over india
Just look at Abhay, Apoorv and other Hindu "sounding" names. These guys may not be practising Hindus but they do hav hindu sounding names.. But they are most of the time criticising hindus, bashing bjp, abusing RSS and loo behold are still alive and kicking....
'Just look at Abhay, Apoorv and other Hindu "sounding" names.'good sarcasm.
criticising hindues?????where???is hinduism limited to support bjp and rss.were bjp and rss formed by some god???then y??
Now imagine the same scenario where a muslim criticizes Islam? Next day He will be on Internet with his neck being severed from the rest of the body...This is the diff..
hey is salman rushdie and taslima nasrin dead...
When i say reform...i mean havng the tenacity to take in crticizm and have an open mind to other religion and ability for peaceful coexitence....which is completely lacking...
Last time when this happened was with Hitler's nazi party when the entire community when fascist and crazy.. same is happening with u guys..
so ponder over and think...
i told you we can discuss these things on some other community...not this one plz...
busy abhay
@ Sumit
Tere muh lagkar koi faida nahi
i wonder if tht masterni of urs.. Sarah Paulin ever raised any remarkable q except spending some 85million $ on her wardrobe...
u r not diff fm her...... so keep barking as always All the best
busy abhay
@ Kapil
I am really glad my friend that u r following my postings in other communities as well
DID u really read that post? Did u notice that q mark after the sentence Bhagwan Ram was a rapist???
I love bhagwan Ram , not as a god but as a remarkable individual , a person who fought against injustice but always followed the rules to toto.. that is why he is called Purushottam Ram . And what is happening people using his name are doing acts of Ravana . Raping a woman , don't u think these people are briniging a bad name to Ram more then Islamic terrorists?? i love Ram and i will denounce all those who use his name to do criminal acts..
now my view about Islam..... it is as stupid a religion as Judaism , Hinduism or Christianity. It also propagates many wrong things , other than good things like love all human beings. Mahummad left one of his many wives becoz she was left alone and came back with another carvan...they all are same .... preaching non sense..
and what makes Islam worst was its nature not to accept any criticism . And no wonder this makes Muslims allover the world most underdeveloped and illogical...
Now about Hinduism . what made Hinduism great was its flexibility and acceptance to other religions and that is why it survived against Buddhism , Islam and what not..
And this is exactly the reason why i critcize RSS becoz now they are chaging this nature of Hinduism... making it a fundamentalist religion and this will prove disaster for the country...
and finally who gains Congress and BJP alternately..
busy abhay
but then y do people buy this communal politics??????????
right q but nothing new Napoleon said " religion is a tool in the hands of poor to make fool out of common people."
Since birth u are told abt God and religion.... u saw people around u become fanatic for that and u follow their example...
If some party comes and tell u we will remove poverty from India , u will not pay any attention but if some one comes and says we will bring the glory back to Hinduism , u will immediately go and vote for that party..
Never caring what it is actually doing?? Is it working for the people? BJP did anything for the common man other than filling its own pockets??? same as congress
Religion is the easist way to incite the people and make them losse their common sense and then they cant see what is right and what is wrong...
who gains?? those bastards who spoiled the name of my Lord Ram!!!
busy abhay
FEAR
Fear is the root of all the evils.... and this is the thing explited worl over for generations
ever wondered why Aarushi case was so widely covered , while SUICIDE of ! lakh famrers in Maharahtra hardly figures anywhere in media???
Becoz u care damn about that farmers , but when u see Aarushi case u feel it happening it to someone next to ur home and this generates fear and this brings TRP ratings to channel.
But what is lost? while people remained glued to news channels thinking about Aarushi , millions of people die of hunger, no one questions why those farmers committed suicide? What is the reason and who is responsible??
http://www.countercurrents.org/sharma220607.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/shiva300407.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/gl-shiva150205.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/gl-shiva220205.htm
Since the starting of human civilization rulers have exploited this feeling of fear to gain political and economic gains for themselves. No wonder the max deaths in world are caused by religious wars, and they didnt involve only Islam.... u can check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Wars_of_Religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#Population_changes:_Wars_against_the_Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
The legacy continues today.....
islamic clerics say Islam is under threat , start Jihad against Kafirs. VHP says Hinduism is under threat , kill all the Muslims around u, Jews says they are under threat and keep exploiting millions of Palestinians, Christians say they are under threat and under the pretext of war on terror attack Iraq for oil and kill millions of innocent Iraqia in the bargain.
what they all are doing is exploit the fear in common men, let thim kill each other we will gain power and enjoy the riches. What happened to poverty and hunger , who cares , Religion is more imp than bread and Holy wars more imp than development!!!
APOORV
@ kapil
Do u really think that RSS is a true representative of Indian culture today or even of Hinduism???
And for ur info , even I denounce Terrorists killing in the name of Allah , but at the same time should i attack any muslim , because 1 Muslim is doing such acts?? things are not so simple as they appear my friend.....
in case u have inclination and time , i think this will explain my stand
http://apoorv-life.blogspot.com/2008/10/bomb-blast.html
@ Abhay
i fully agree with ur comments abt exploitation of fear ..... just hope all of our countrymen realize this and India , the land of Gautam Buddha, doesn't become the land of holy wars!!!
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Well, I m not following you on any community, but was actually part of that community but when i saw those comments, i decided to leave the community in disgust. I was seething in Anger but couldnt do much u know...
I am also glad that u have accepted the basic flaw in Islam which is its inability to take in criticism which has turned its followers the most obscrantists, illogocal and radical sections of our society and the entire world...
But would then link acts of radicalisation to Allah himself..Post a new thread about Allah linking terrorisn to him??Thats where u r wrong...
Why would a serving Lt Col in Indian Army choose to indulge in brutal acts of bombings and killings???
It is bcoz the Hindus feel it is time to Defend their motherland and their religion when the Congress League govt turned to minorities for their Bread and Butter and dont care abt them,,, it is utmost shameful but its true..
Also In the public domain, the communist leaders are sworn enemies of BJP and hindus... There is little difference between CPI/ CPI(M) and Muslim leaugue or Samajwadi Party...They are all gunning for minority votes.. They shd be ready to reform all religions not just hindus...
Analyse this::: The communist movement in India is older than the RSS and even as old as Congress . Then y is that it has pretty much FAILED in the political space and apart from one or 2 states has no presence elsewhere even after so many years???
The answer is simple... "THEY ARE NOT LIKEABLE".
1)They abuse Hindus all the time. They become Rationalist for Hindus and Religious for Muslims... They may be atheist but majority of the country is deeply religious... Look at communist govts eleswhere... they are not ALLERGIC to religion publicly and are not atleast not biased.. Mayb u can pass my message to them...
2) They crib aby old stuff all the time..
2) Look at it from this angle::: There is so much competition for Muslim votes... But there is only one party which goes for Hindu votes...U have more chances to win here..
busy abhay
@ kapil
Kya yaar i was expecting some gd , new ans but u repeated the same old communist stuff
Okk i repeat wat i said last abt so called Indian communists
@ kapil
now a clarification about communists of India today..
But i hope u dont mean that CPI (M) , CPI and other bunch of jokers, those good for nothing who are completely opposite of a communist. A communist can never support SEZ and CPI (M) has killed its own people for SEZ.
they do only bakwas and nothing else. they are pseudo communists like their Chinese brothers and Lula of Brazil who preach Communism and follow Capitalism. Muh mein Ram bagal mein Churi.....
But there are people who are asking right questions and giving right answers , for that u will have to read Roy's books yaar!!
busy abhay
now abt minoirty appeasement
What have ur above said parties have done for Muslims or for anyone else??
or what BJP has done for Hindus??
yaar point is all these parties are doing nothing for anyone except for themselves. They are just dividing the country like what Britishers did long back.
need is to stop them and not support 1 of them becoz they "speak" in favour of our religion.Because when BJP also comes to power , onion sells above Rs 60/kg, Bangaru Laxaman takes bribe and George Fernendes drinks money in arms deal, when our poor soldier die in KArgil.
they are as worthless as Congress/SP/BSP/CPI(M)/CPI or any other bunch of jokers.
U really feel BJP will do something for the Hindus if it comes to power?? Ok may be it will bring POTA , arrest more Muslims, then u feel India will become safe from terrorism?? No it will increase , I can give u this in writing need is for peace and justice and above all development.
see the state of India 60 years after independence
http://www.wakeupcall.org/administration_in_india/poverty_line.php
and all Congress/SP/BSP/CPI(M)/CPI plus ur BJP (which has ruled 5 yrs in centre and many yrs in state) did nothing except filling their own pockets
still u feel they will do something gd for India???
busy abhay
And lets us leave Communism and capitalism and religion
lets come to humanism. thts wat we are here for humanity to help people in distress
let it be any ism, but we should overcome poverty , hunger and underdevelopment.
and thing is none of our political parties are interested in this
see a study by great environmentalist Vandana Shiva
http://www.countercurrents.org/glo-shiva050404.htm
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Your views and ideas suggest a highly developed thinking mind and objective assessment of situations-especially the political ones...
Nobody can deny your statements as they are perfectly correct......
But dude, how do we correct the political situation which has taken our country into a completely different trajectory and inertia from where we may never be able to return back...
I am also not a die hard supporter of any particular party, including BJP.. but i am pissed off, angry and frustrated at the continued attacks on one party and religion by all concerned... As long as there is fairness and justice, people will be happy but we need to be careful that Injustices can lead to revolt ... and its not just one party or religion which has the sole right to feel "threatened, angry, helpless"".
Key is, "Justice without Prejudice"
So let me ask you this::: How do get out of the muddle that we find ourselve in??? How do we lead our country to path of peace and tranquility where there is justice and liberty for all???
busy abhay
@ Kapil
thanks buddy for ur comments
the first step of any solution is to first realize the problem and i think u are near to it!!!
I can understand ur frustration with everyone opposing pro-Hindu parties...as i am seeing it happening with most of the Hindus around me .....
there is a growing fear among Hindus and anger against Islamic terrorists.....
But the same thing holds in Muslims also- they are scared and alienated and in a cocoon , and this produces more terrorists !!!
thus this is a mutual process, why intellectuals oppose pro-Hindu more than Islamic??
1 There is no doubt that Islamic terrorists they are wrong , so there is no argument abt it but people supporting Hindu religious fanaticism - it can be argued and thts why there is more opposition
2. this is the birth of Hindu Fascism in India , the seeds which Britishers sowed , are bearing fruits now...and if it is not stopped now, it will be very dangerous for our country
well to explain it more u need to read history yaar... if u don't mind u can start with my blog...
there is a book by Nirad C chaudhari.... abt religious fundamentalism u can read tht ,
coming to ur q
So let me ask you this::: How do get out of the muddle that we find ourselve in??? How do we lead our country to path of peace and tranquility where there is justice and liberty for all???
well there is no direct ans i can give u...... becoz there is no 1 standard solution.... people are trying few things... like Medha Patekar ..........
dont get agitated
but seriously telling u , read the books of Arundhati Roy , they will give u gd insight of wats alternatives r there
becoz u also know if BJP comes to power, it is gng to increase the problem , because they themselves never want this problem to solves,because this is wat brings them to power and then they can make millions....
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Was tied up with some work, so a delayed response....
Well the hope is that, we people, amongst our small group atleast on Orkut, comes up with some plausible solution to the crisis facing our great nation...
To that effect, we need to understand why hindus are feeling the way they are and talking law into their own hands.... The reason has been the unbridled, unremorseful, unstoppable force of Islamic fundamentalism which has matured into Islamic terrorism... "Hindus are Reactionary in nature. They look at Taliban, Pakistan, our own minorities, and see that when these guys kill people, other people listen to them, they agree to their demands etc. So they are simply trying to MIMIC the same aggressiveness and brutality in their own functioning". How to stop this::: "Face Islamic terrorirm HEAD ON." For this the secularists need to throw the "BIASED ATTiTUDE" that so currently characterizes them.... Criticize and devote time to NEUTRALIZE extermism of any type...
So lets look at Islamic terrorism:::a lot of people including myslef are trying to understand whats causing Muslims all over the world to turn aggressive and start killing people..
You have mentioned in ur piece""But the same thing holds in Muslims also- they are scared and alienated and in a cocoon , and this produces more terrorists !!!"
Consider this:::
Bali, Indonesia in 2001. More than 200 humans were butchered and massacared in a series of blasts??? Indoneasia is the largest Islamic country, so y on earth would they feel in ur words "scared and alienated and in a cocoon"
My analysis suggests this is a worldwide phenomenon where the wahhabi sect of ISlam is trying to impose its will over the entire world through the means of the sword...as they know best...
The same is being done in India albeit at a smaller scale..and after many many years of subjugation, Hindus are getting militairized and its understandable as they are doing it in Self defence...
Lets not forget
You suugested few personalities and their work towards possible solution roadmap...
Nirad Chaudhary, Arundhati, Medha, Romilla Thapar...
You need to read the following to understand the perspective from the other end:
http://www.indpride.com/screaming%20hatred%20against%20hindus.html
Ashok Singhal, Praveen Tagodia, etc..
While the former are far left extermists while the latter are far right extremists...
And why shd i read their books and implement their suggestions.??..they abuse Hindus, want to terminate our culture,, Neutralise the rise of BJP while turning BLIND to ISLAMIC FASCISM... There is no meeting point my dear friend as they are extremists in their own sense
Lets not forget
Let me take you back to an era in the 80s when proabaly we were not born or were very young..
In the 80s, India faced a brutal terrorism which was of a differeent hue and flavour:::
Sikh Terrorism.
It was as brutal as any terrorism can be.. And Today where is that terrorism?
It was defeated.. it was beaten by few brave soldiers of Hind who didnt care for their lives. It was not solved by Arundhati and Medha. If these ladies had their way then our country would have been definately been killed by now...
it was defeated because there was RETALIATION to every AGGRESSION but the people were also given an option to return to non violent ways...
A case in point is also Chechanya, Russia...
Lets not forget
@abhay
On a completely different note,,, when i visited one of you blogs that you have displayed on your home page, i was stuck by one thought :::
Almost all the articles in the whole blog are so ONE SIDED.. If the blog owners believe in democracy and healthy debate... there has to be some views from the other side as well.....It was astonishing to read the articles...AMAZINGLY ALL THE ARTICLES HAVE ONE UNDERLYING CURRENT:: HINDUS ARE WORSE THAN ANIMALS, RISE OF MILITANT HINDUISM, NEUTRALIZING HINDU FASCISM, TERROR ATTACKS A RESULT OF GUJARAT, BABRI MASJID, AYODHYA, ORISSA, BANAGLORE, KERALA, CHICKMANGALORE, ETC. ETC. ETC....
havent we heard these before::: One FEEDBACK::: Variety is the spice of life::: BRING SOME DIVERGENT VIEWS...
busy abhay
Comeon yaar I am not writing a fictional story here to get some popularity . THis is not a shobha DEs article - that i need to add variety to it. I will only support what i believe is right and oppose what I believe is wrong- though they may differ from your views!
well you have again repeated the same old things never thinking back - i have opposed pseudo communist partied and islamic org in same tone as BJP and Congress.
So there is no point in repeating things. i am writing few things ion my blog- in case they appeal to u , u may read them-else you can continue with ur views
Gopi
Capitalism is already dead
What we have here is not capitalism.
If it were really market economics then all these big corporates would have closed down (taking lot of the populace with them) and would have been replaced by new corporates. That would have been "free and fair" market. What we see here is all corporates, who would scream blue murder if government were to "interfere" in businesses/markets, are running with huge begging bowl to the government to bail them out with tax-payers hard-earned money!!
Take UBS for instance. It was notorious for paying Swiss citizens one of the lowest savings deposit rates in the world. Now it wants Swiss citizens to pay for its bad times. Any guesses what happens when the good times are back? (Will UBS pay Swisses good or atleast competitive deposit rates?)
One of the critics of the US bailout bill had said that in Capitalism government should not interfere at all. The government interference only shows its NOT capitalism. Its the flawed, self-serving logic (not even theory) of these corporations: Dont stop of us from making money by hook or crook but please help us when we are not making money.
Gopi
Following up with the example of UBS.
Read this[http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7741561.stm]. While investors were losing money, UBS executives paid themselves big bonuses and were finally bailed out by Swiss tax-payers.
This isn't capitalism or free market; its sheer fraud.
An average citizen of a capitalist state has been cheated like this since years.
Jawahar
Abhay dude!!, you are my hero!! [:)]
Impeccable arguments, unbiased understanding of facts!! I applaud your perspicacity and I share the pain you go through, looking at the state of affairs in our country, infact the world-over!!!
The glorification of ideas like nationalism, communalism, and what not, very shrewdly employed by the rich few to divert the masses from the immediate injustice catered to them on a daily basis.
I want to let you know that I totally empathize with your view point and I am happy to see you voice your opinions with the incisive clarity that you did. Keep at it my friend!!
Jawahar
If I may add..
Abhay, in addition to the solution you were suggesting, the first thing is awareness, awareness that has to spread among our young. History, unbiased and with all the right perspectives, so that people dont indulge in the mindless hatred that our country is headed towards. Awareness of unbiased facts, and proper historical tutelage, what our country stands for, if you may...
Dec 11 (2 days ago)
Jawahar
Also, for the people who are under-informed, rather ill-informed, looking the the above posts!, Please watch this videos to gain some insight!
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money+masters&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#
Please make sure you understand what capitalism stand for and its track record in the last 500 years before you take any stand!!
RESPONSE TO MUMBAI ATTACKS ARTICLE
Beautiful blog!, Abhay, that is the perspective thats needed!! Hopefully, the recent attacks help people look into the issue with greater urgency, indulge in some soul/fact searching and embrace the viewpoint you put forth! Please do as much as you can to publicize the blog/article you wrote!!
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Brilliant Article dude...
To be honest this is a first of a kind from a communist, An Unbiased article where neither is a terrorist attack being justified nor Hindus being infairly abused and blamed...although there are traces of it...
I have always admired your analytical thinking and your ability to be free from political mythos that bind most of us. This has lead to this beautifully analysed and expertly articulated article... If somebody can pass this to the impotent government we still have hope...
When i started reading the solutions suggested by you i thought that again you are going down the often travelled and mostly abused road "Peace with Neighbours- at all Cost". Bcoz i am tired of hearing people telling us how dangerous pakistan is and any action will lead to annihilation... The aggressive solution suggested by you including Covert operations must be pursued at all cost even if it escalates to War...
Remember shakespeare:-
"Cowards die a death every day , the valiant get it once"[\b]
My pickup line from your blog is definately this "This incident changed the view of many moderates towards Islamic terrorism, including me". This is what i have been attempting to portray through my messages.
I felt my chest expand a few inches when i read that the Indian muslims had refused to bury the terrorists as these animals should not receive any respect that even a dead erson deserves. I felt proud to be an indian and appreciated the uniqueness of our culture... definately this attack has brought us all together irrespective of our religions and ideology...
Lets not forget
Having said adove,,, Your analysis of the problem is way different than Arundhati..
She sickeningly justifies this Massacre also.. and blames her usual suspects
Hindus, Capitalism, Bush, and predicts the fall of India...
Why would they kill Jews if they are angry with Indians.. Why would they kill a pregnant women and leave a 2 year old baby crying for her mother? why?
If you happen to meet her, put some positive thoughts into her..
Ask her to see this:::
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/slideshow/msid-3814184.cms?imw=460
Jawahar
@lets not forget
She sickeningly justifies this Massacre also.. and blames her usual suspects
Hindus, Capitalism, Bush, and predicts the fall of India...
She never said "hindus" it is infact "hindu extremism" that she was refering to. And she was not justifying anything. But was trying to impress upon the idea that, this attack, yet again is a symptom, not the disease!!, which btw, is not any different from the Abhay's blog. Anyway, Abhay might want to comment on that!
awahar
btw, I was refering to her comments on mumbai attacks from here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=436ZYOImdUc
Lets not forget
Jawahar
Alrite, she says Hindu extremism, explain this to me please
how on earth would Hindu extremism result in terrorists killings Jews then???
what kind of Logic is this???
Jawahar
@lets not forget
Firstly, I totally understand your point.
Though I am a big fan of Ms Roy, I think she was in a way, caught on the wrong foot in this particular case. However, if you listen to the interview keenly, she was referring to some "25 men" which was the initial Government speculation, along with the speculation that some local(indian) extremists must have been instrumental in this attack.
Taking these initial Govt speculations as "facts", she must have given her analysis.
Also, from your statement, you seem to infer that if they were indeed indian born terrorist, they would have let the foreign Jews off. Am I understanding it right?
busy abhay
@ everyone
when a person follows an ideology there are chances that his own ideas become a slave to that ideology and lead to stagnation. this doesn't necessarily means his ideology is wrong but he somehow looses his reasoning power to look beyond that particular ideology. His paradigm gets limited to that ideology which leads to stagnation!I am greatly impressed by Marx views , Stalin views and then Mao's views .
But i dont blindly accept all their views and try to question them in my mind, and sometimes i dont find answer correctly from them. then i read the contrary view also. thats the reason i read the times of India though i feel its mostly a trash!
the basic flaw with all of us is to expect a human being to be totally perfect or evil. no human being can be so, he is laible to faults , he is not superhuman and thus he will make mistake. but to think Gandhiji was mahatma who was above criticism is stupid , for that matter i even criticize Bhagwan Ram for leaving Sita , though i appreciate his other qualities. there are flaws in everyone! \
busy abhay
@ For ARUNDHATI ROYS SPEECH
well i didn't like her this speech very much. not because it was wrong, but for it being a little out of touch with the current issue. what she says is absolutely right , the cancer cannot be treated by applying bandages. But cancer patients are given morphine to overcome acute pain at that moment.
these terrorists are to be condemned in every way possible.
i even criticized the terrorists earlier , but i dont know why u never feel it! the only difference this time was i didnt have any sympathy at all with them, reason being the heinous act they have done! but so have all other terrorists and they all should be butchered , irrespective of religion. But will this solve the problem???
nobecause the cause of terrorism are lying deep down and this cause and its soultion is given rightly by Arundhati
@KAPIL
i will again request you buddy to read her " AN ordinary Persons guide to the Empire" .then u will realize she is the biggest opponent of terror!
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Brilliant Article dude...
To be honest this is a first of a kind from a communist, An Unbiased article where neither is a terrorist attack being justified nor Hindus being infairly abused and blamed...although there are traces of it...
I have always admired your analytical thinking and your ability to be free from political mythos that bind most of us. This has lead to this beautifully analysed and expertly articulated article... If somebody can pass this to the impotent government we still have hope...
When i started reading the solutions suggested by you i thought that again you are going down the often travelled and mostly abused road "Peace with Neighbours- at all Cost". Bcoz i am tired of hearing people telling us how dangerous pakistan is and any action will lead to annihilation... The aggressive solution suggested by you including Covert operations must be pursued at all cost even if it escalates to War...
Remember shakespeare:-
"Cowards die a death every day , the valiant get it once"[\b]
My pickup line from your blog is definately this "This incident changed the view of many moderates towards Islamic terrorism, including me". This is what i have been attempting to portray through my messages.
I felt my chest expand a few inches when i read that the Indian muslims had refused to bury the terrorists as these animals should not receive any respect that even a dead erson deserves. I felt proud to be an indian and appreciated the uniqueness of our culture... definately this attack has brought us all together irrespective of our religions and ideology...
Lets not forget
Having said adove,,, Your analysis of the problem is way different than Arundhati..
She sickeningly justifies this Massacre also.. and blames her usual suspects
Hindus, Capitalism, Bush, and predicts the fall of India...
Why would they kill Jews if they are angry with Indians.. Why would they kill a pregnant women and leave a 2 year old baby crying for her mother? why?
If you happen to meet her, put some positive thoughts into her..
Ask her to see this:::
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/slideshow/msid-3814184.cms?imw=460
Jawahar
@lets not forget
She sickeningly justifies this Massacre also.. and blames her usual suspects
Hindus, Capitalism, Bush, and predicts the fall of India...
She never said "hindus" it is infact "hindu extremism" that she was refering to. And she was not justifying anything. But was trying to impress upon the idea that, this attack, yet again is a symptom, not the disease!!, which btw, is not any different from the Abhay's blog. Anyway, Abhay might want to comment on that!
awahar
btw, I was refering to her comments on mumbai attacks from here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=436ZYOImdUc
Lets not forget
Jawahar
Alrite, she says Hindu extremism, explain this to me please
how on earth would Hindu extremism result in terrorists killings Jews then???
what kind of Logic is this???
Jawahar
@lets not forget
Firstly, I totally understand your point.
Though I am a big fan of Ms Roy, I think she was in a way, caught on the wrong foot in this particular case. However, if you listen to the interview keenly, she was referring to some "25 men" which was the initial Government speculation, along with the speculation that some local(indian) extremists must have been instrumental in this attack.
Taking these initial Govt speculations as "facts", she must have given her analysis.
Also, from your statement, you seem to infer that if they were indeed indian born terrorist, they would have let the foreign Jews off. Am I understanding it right?
busy abhay
@ everyone
when a person follows an ideology there are chances that his own ideas become a slave to that ideology and lead to stagnation. this doesn't necessarily means his ideology is wrong but he somehow looses his reasoning power to look beyond that particular ideology. His paradigm gets limited to that ideology which leads to stagnation!I am greatly impressed by Marx views , Stalin views and then Mao's views .
But i dont blindly accept all their views and try to question them in my mind, and sometimes i dont find answer correctly from them. then i read the contrary view also. thats the reason i read the times of India though i feel its mostly a trash!
the basic flaw with all of us is to expect a human being to be totally perfect or evil. no human being can be so, he is laible to faults , he is not superhuman and thus he will make mistake. but to think Gandhiji was mahatma who was above criticism is stupid , for that matter i even criticize Bhagwan Ram for leaving Sita , though i appreciate his other qualities. there are flaws in everyone! \
busy abhay
@ For ARUNDHATI ROYS SPEECH
well i didn't like her this speech very much. not because it was wrong, but for it being a little out of touch with the current issue. what she says is absolutely right , the cancer cannot be treated by applying bandages. But cancer patients are given morphine to overcome acute pain at that moment.
these terrorists are to be condemned in every way possible.
i even criticized the terrorists earlier , but i dont know why u never feel it! the only difference this time was i didnt have any sympathy at all with them, reason being the heinous act they have done! but so have all other terrorists and they all should be butchered , irrespective of religion. But will this solve the problem???
nobecause the cause of terrorism are lying deep down and this cause and its soultion is given rightly by Arundhati
@KAPIL
i will again request you buddy to read her " AN ordinary Persons guide to the Empire" .then u will realize she is the biggest opponent of terror!
Thursday, December 11, 2008
MUMBAI ATTACKS: AN OVERVIEW
It was a lazy afternoon and I was having a discussion with my friend on recent bomb explosions in various cities of India and the communal polarization of India. The way the Hindu and Muslim radicals were proceeding I commented,” India is on its path to civil war may be 10 years from now.” He smiled and said may be early, because just think if we these terrorists start doing Fidayeen attacks inside our country. Both of us then ended the conversation with a long sigh! And just 1 week after that India witnessed it first Fidayeen attacked outside Kashmir.
Lot of things has changed after Mumbai attack. I was planning to write on this as soon as possible, but I don’t believe in knee jerk reaction and took my time to study and come to some conclusions.
WHAT’S DIFFERENT: there have been more deaths in earlier Mumbai bomb explosions of 2006. Terrorism has become order of the day and there is a public acceptance of it also (which is worst). Then how this attack has been able to shake India?
1. For the first time, the rich capitalist class of India was affected. The symbols of richness in India were attacked first time. Uptill now only the poor or middle class common men was hurt in the terrorist attacks but this time they went deep inside the otherwise protective and aloof zone of the rich class. This was the wake up call for India Inc , who otherwise felt isolated from the “stupid” things happening in India.
2. First time there was such a well planned and executed attack, the kind of logistics and preparedness that has gone into this attack it surpassed even 9/11. The commando training involved pointed that some great agencies and resources had been involved in planning.
3. The media coverage obviously. Terrorists spraying bullets, commandoes landing by a helo in a building, army columns marching in the city- along with some great audio-visual effects were telecasted day and night and left a deep impression in the mind of every Indian. The feeling of fear was deeply ingressed.
4. The leftover security myth of Indian middle class was also shattered. You can die anytime, any moment, anywhere state does not claim any responsibility for your protection.
5. First time the international Islamic terrorists had attacked the heart of India and moreover even foreigners, which brought widespread international attention to the incident.
AIM:
1. To destroy the image of India as a safe and developing country in international stage, especially by targeting foreigners.
2. To develop the feeling of fear and hatred in Indian Hindus and thus create more religious polarization, which will further add fuel to the fire.
3. To bleed India , so that it keep focusing its resources on these issues and development takes a back seat.
ACTORS BEHIND THE STAGE:
1. The type of training terrorists had, can be comparable to one of the best military trainings in the world. Thus some foreign military agency- most probably ISI is involved.
http://www.countercurrents.org/hammond041208.htm
2. The funding could be from the ISI directly or from radicals in Saudi Arabia.
3. The international Islamic terrorist organizations also provided some support.
4. There was definitely some local logistics support- either from underworld or from local jihadi organizations.
5. Some people even held radical Hindu organizations responsible, but I don’t think they can switch to such a audacious tactic to Kill ATS chief, who was behind Saadhvi Pragya. In my view, this view is ridiculous.
http://www.countercurrents.org/misra031208.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/sikand291108.htm
WHO GAINS?
1. Definitely the image of India is tarnished and whatever feeling of security was left is also gone. People are disillusioned with politicians, irrespective of parties, and at least for this moment are looking for alternative (though I feel it will die out after some time)
2. As I read the news; the biggest beneficiary will be ISI and the Army of Pakistan. With their tarnished image after lal Masjid episode and fighting against jehadis groups in NWFP, this is a welcome change. They have improved their image in the eyes of radical Muslims. They have bleeded India, and like always, have been able to divert attention of public from home issues to international issues. They have remerged as the champion of the Pakistan cause, as the only saviors who could protect Pakistan against Indian invasion.
3. I expected the Hindu radical parties also to gain from it. But as if now the public support to them in this case is very cold. There is total disillusionment from all political parties.the muslim radical groups will definitely gain, may be both in India and Pakistan. It will also help International Islamic organizations as Muslims all over the world will be again treated partially with suspicion.
http://www.countercurrents.org/sikand031208.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/mathew291108.htm
4. In international stage this will help US- who can fool its public even more now, and continue with its selfish wars against humanity in the name of “war on terror”. This attack will help US in attaining a good change in its international diplomacy. It is well clear by nuclear deal and joint military exercises that US wants India to be its junior partner. This attack showcases US-India-Israel as fellow sufferers. Thus their unity will increase and in that bargain India will have to support US selfish wars by men and money. I won’t be surprised if Indian forces are pulled into Afghan war. With escalating deaths and no end in sight US will try its best to rope in Indian Army in this never ending war.
WHO LOSSES?
1. The biggest looser is Indian public. Hurt, scared and disillusioned it doesn’t know whom to blame and what to expect from its government.
2. The biggest danger is for Indian Muslims. They all may be labeled as terrorists, looked down with suspicion and alienated in their own country. The end result will be a new generation filled with hatred and vengeance which will have the capability to destroy the country. The Muslim leaders of India should immediately ensure that Muslims remain aligned with India and at the same time state should ensure that while individual .
3. the peace process between India and Pakistan will end and this will be definitely a setback for both the countries, while the entire world is uniting here are two countries wasting there energy and resources on each other……… the peaceful coexistence of both the countries will be a boon for both of them.
4. the Indian development – once again terrorism will become the biggest issue in publics mind, and our government will once again ignore other draconian problems facing us- like poverty, unemployment , health care. While we all feel terrorism is the biggest enemy of India, actually it is the poverty, malnutrition and common diseases.
http://www.cghr.org/SRS%20Study%20Brochure.pdf
http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/4BA1A8D4B34F06E36525750C0020E41B?OpenDocument
http://www.whiteribbonalliance-india.org/factsandfigures.htm
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2461713.cms
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS
A. ALREADY PROJECTED:
1. ATTACK PAKISTAN: this was obviously the first knee jerk reaction, of the Indian public and media, Pakistan is responsible for it, so attack it. But we know the civil government is not responsible for it as they don’t hold the actual power only. Even the common men in Pakistan are not anti-India. The authority responsible is ISI and indirectly Army, and they are the people who are going to gain if India attacks Pakistan. There will be human loss, economic loss and both countries will suffer badly. The war may even go nuclear, and the final result will be nothing. The Islamic terrorists in Pakistan will get sympathy and they will develop their network even more. So this should be kept out of question.
2. ATTACK SELECTED TARGETS: this is the next option to target terrorist camps and their headquarters in Lahore, and kill them all. Though emotionally I will also favour such an attack, but practically speaking even this will not yield much solution as only few people will die , and may be even more terrorist are born. After all, Israel is doing this only but has killed more civilians than militants and still the problem remains same. Further it will end all cooperation between India and Pakistan and may even lead to war.
3. TRY DIPLOMACY: I wonder even if this will work. Even if we take the matter to Security Council and Pakistan says it will do something, I don’t think their civil government has enough power to assert over ISI. If this would have worked LeT would not have been still operating from Pakistan.
Then do what, we can’t attack, diplomacy doesn’t work, and then what is the solution??
STRONG INTELLIGENCE: before doing anything outside we need to improve situations inside. Our intelligence has become one of the weakest in the world. There is no efficiency as there is no motivation. When soldiers think that from Mantri to Santri is behind money. Why should I endanger my life? This is has to change and this requires a fundamental change in our society and thinking. Even is US , people give a lot of respect to security forces and intelligence , while in India we care only for money. A strong intelligence is must for a safe nation, and this has been projected from the times of Chanakya (in Arthashastra) to Sun Zu (the author of Art of War). Without proper intelligence a nation can not work. Its efficiency is to increased at any cost.
STRONG SECURITY FORCES: India has one of the least police densities in the world. And whatever is there is for the service of VIP and rich Indians. the leftover is corrupt , inefficient and unmotivated. Its high time we implement police reforms.
http://www.boloji.com/opinion/0568.htm
Though a fundamental change in mindset needs a complete overhaul of system, but atlest take initial steps. De-link politics and security forces and stop doing petty politics demoralizing our security forces. Give them better pay and perks and most of all respect for the dangerous work they do. Stop codemnning them, and stop speaking in favour of terrorists, be it Hindu or Muslim. The army and Navy are suffering from officers shortage. This is the result of capitalist system we copied where certain jobs are considered much better than other jobs. Thus to be a software engg is cool even though you hate computing. People are not patriotic enough to consider the job of defence officer. While we praise them but if asked are you ready to be one- we leave the debate. This needs a complete change in our economic system, where every job is consider to be at par. Remove the bureaucratic delays in improvement of security forces and give them better pay, perks and living environment. The number of suicides shows that there is something rotten even inside armed forces. This thing should be immediately addressed and correct steps should be taken instead of just lip service.
http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/11/stories/2008121155540800.htm
This will not solve the problem but it will bring it down to minimal levels.
COVERT OPERATION: even if Pakistan doesn’t involve revive the covert operation arm of RAW. Though it backfired in the case of LTTE , I feel now it is greatly required. We should not go for civil targets but aim for individuals. How can Dawood Ibrahim roam freely in Pakistan and Dubai, when he has harmed a nation of billion people? How can Masood Azhar and Hafiz Muhammad Saeed appear on media and give free speeches after killing so many innocent Indians. We should prove we are not eunuchs; any one can come and rape our motherland. Its high time covert operations targeting these individuals should be made. This will give a lesson to all the individuals dreaming of attacking India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_prince
Even if Pakistan military doesn’t learn lesson, we should aim for their senior officers and anti-India leaders. The country is already in turmoil, it will give some good results for sure. I hope all these Hindu-radicals who keep beating their chests and killing innocent people will participate in these operations. At least some Bajrang Dal and Shiv Sainiks will show their real valor in such operations, rather then just doing ‘Tamasha’ in public!
But for this Indian government needs guts of steel and RAW should be completely revamped into an efficient and active organization then what it is today.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/19swadas.htm
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jid/jid040701_1_n.shtml
http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/12668
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/%91Sexually-harassed-but-no-one-listening%92:-suicide-bid-at-PMO-by-RAW-director/350996/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_and_Analysis_Wing
LONG TERM SOLUTIONS: As Arundhati Roy says all the above solutions are treatment of symptoms and not the disease.
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=436ZYOImdUc
To treat the disease one needs to understand it and then to cure it needs patience and commitment. First what we should understand is that Islamic terrorism took birth, due to the exploitation of the poor in the name of religion and spread due to the policies of USA itself. It started with US phobia of communism and to counter it, it spread the religious fundamentalism. It started with Iran, and now the same place US considers a member of the Axis of evil, forgetting the evil was created by them only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
The ordinary Persian today also is as secular as yesterday, but thanks to US is ruled by Islamic radicals. [See this year NAT GEO edition on Persia]
Now come to the hot bed of Islamic terrorism- Afghanistan and here also Uncle Sam reared a child yesterday who has become a monster today. And instead of taming the monster, Uncle Sam is throwing acid on him, making it more dangerous then eve before!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
http://beautifulliferocks.blogspot.com/2008/09/who-rules-world.html
the underlying solution is the development and peace rather than war. They way US is carrying out carpet bombing in Afghanistan and now in Pakistan, has not only made Taliban revamp rather, has made entire Afghanistan a failed state. If US don’t change its aggressive policy, even Pakistan may fail and this will be a problem not just for India but entire world!
http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/11/stories/2008121155660900.htm
The only hope is that US hunts down selected terrorists, raise the Afghan army, supply it with required logistics, equip it and then leave Afghanistan. Entire world should make efforts to restore democracy there and biggest of all raise the hope of development and life in those people who have forgotten what is civilization.
Coming over to Pakistan, since its birth, its leaders have found anti-India rhetoric best way to distract their own people from development issues. While the country is still reeling under poverty and feudalism, its upper middle class corrupt politicians found anti-India sentiments as the best way to rule. This changed with the military dictators who joined the US to fill their pockets and strengthen military while common men remains in oblivion. Zia-ul-Haq the poster boy of US brought radical Islam back to Pakistan and the seeds sown by him are bearing the fruits today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zia_ul_Haq
The civilian government there is more interested in making money and somehow sticking to power. (not a surprise with Mr 10% as a president)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E2D61E30F93AA35752C0A96E958260
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/Asif_Ali_Zardari_Mr_Ten_Percent_on_brink_of_Pakistan_presidency/articleshow/3435532.cms
On the other hand is the military power whose only job is to fill their pockets with US dollars and spit venom against India. What is left in the bargain is a country on the verge of economic and social disaster. With no money, no bread, no hope religious fundamentalism is the only buzzword which has brought Pakistan on the verge of becoming a rogue state.
The solution is obviously nothing but a social revolution which can bring hope to its people. That it’s not the religious jihad but a fight against poverty and exploitation which will bring them social justice and life! Till that time, we will have to keep facing a neighbour filled with millions of potential terrorists.
Coming to our own country, I want to mention a fact which at least some Indians have raised. I definitely agree that Mumbai attacks were a blow against democracy, but what about the ongoing civil war in central India. North –eastern India? What about the suicide of 1 Lakh farmers? They are not the news because they are part of Bharat and not India? They are the step child of India and since they don’t party in Taj and Trident we are not bothered about them at all? Millions of poor Indians are getting displaced every year, thousand protest but no one listens. Millions die of malnutrition but we are not bothered. In short, we are not aware, not bothered, not interested that just next to us, a country is dying in hunger and pain. A breeding ground for terrorism, extremism and all social evils. And more than them, we are responsible for this pathetic state of the country.
Next comes the problem of communalism. It’s the right time to crack down on all religious fundamental organizations be it RSS or SIMI. Stop this communal hatred now, before this fire destroys our country! We cannot win this war without the support of our 150 million brothers. At the same time, it is their responsibility to stop all those choosing the path of terror and work together to create a new India.
Though the Mumbai attacks was a gruesome act , it brought one good thing out – unity among the Indians. Though I was expecting a backlash against Muslims at least by verbal rhetoric by Hindu radicals- it did not happen. People from all walk of life came together to denounce it. Be it Hindu or Muslim, rich or poor everyone expressed his anger. For the first time, I remember people rejected the opportunist tactics of all political partied to milk this incident too
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Major_Unnikrishnans_father_refuses_to_meet_Kerala_CM/articleshow/3777042.cms
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/slain-ats-chiefs-family-spurns-modis-monetary-help/16/26/50348/on
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/11/09/stories/2008110959730800.htm
The people of India expressed their anger by rejecting all inefficient political parties out rightly. This incident changed the view of many moderates towards Islamic terrorism, including me! Even the CPI (Maoist) denounced the incident and given a salute to martyrs of Mumbai attacks.
http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-54618.html
This shows a shift in the ideology of most of the Indians, to denounce terrorism but not an entire community. The demonstration by Mulsims against this incident will also go a long way to eradicate terrorism from this community and bring religious harmony.
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=muslim+demonstration+%2B+mumbai+attacks&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2556
http://www.tuftsdaily.com/a_united_response_to_the_mumbai_attacks
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2667
I will conclude with a request to remove the basic causes behind terrorism rather than eyewash as always! The India is suffering since long, this time the terror came to every middle class household through media. What we need to realize is the other India – Bharat is facing atrocities, exploitation, and hunger everyday. Till the time these inequalities are not removed from society, India will continue to burn. Its time the middle class leave its insensitivity, become more conscious of actual “Bharat” and work towards its all round development. Otherwise this will not be the last time that violence has come from lower strata of the society to the upper class!
JAI HIND!!
Lot of things has changed after Mumbai attack. I was planning to write on this as soon as possible, but I don’t believe in knee jerk reaction and took my time to study and come to some conclusions.
WHAT’S DIFFERENT: there have been more deaths in earlier Mumbai bomb explosions of 2006. Terrorism has become order of the day and there is a public acceptance of it also (which is worst). Then how this attack has been able to shake India?
1. For the first time, the rich capitalist class of India was affected. The symbols of richness in India were attacked first time. Uptill now only the poor or middle class common men was hurt in the terrorist attacks but this time they went deep inside the otherwise protective and aloof zone of the rich class. This was the wake up call for India Inc , who otherwise felt isolated from the “stupid” things happening in India.
2. First time there was such a well planned and executed attack, the kind of logistics and preparedness that has gone into this attack it surpassed even 9/11. The commando training involved pointed that some great agencies and resources had been involved in planning.
3. The media coverage obviously. Terrorists spraying bullets, commandoes landing by a helo in a building, army columns marching in the city- along with some great audio-visual effects were telecasted day and night and left a deep impression in the mind of every Indian. The feeling of fear was deeply ingressed.
4. The leftover security myth of Indian middle class was also shattered. You can die anytime, any moment, anywhere state does not claim any responsibility for your protection.
5. First time the international Islamic terrorists had attacked the heart of India and moreover even foreigners, which brought widespread international attention to the incident.
AIM:
1. To destroy the image of India as a safe and developing country in international stage, especially by targeting foreigners.
2. To develop the feeling of fear and hatred in Indian Hindus and thus create more religious polarization, which will further add fuel to the fire.
3. To bleed India , so that it keep focusing its resources on these issues and development takes a back seat.
ACTORS BEHIND THE STAGE:
1. The type of training terrorists had, can be comparable to one of the best military trainings in the world. Thus some foreign military agency- most probably ISI is involved.
http://www.countercurrents.org/hammond041208.htm
2. The funding could be from the ISI directly or from radicals in Saudi Arabia.
3. The international Islamic terrorist organizations also provided some support.
4. There was definitely some local logistics support- either from underworld or from local jihadi organizations.
5. Some people even held radical Hindu organizations responsible, but I don’t think they can switch to such a audacious tactic to Kill ATS chief, who was behind Saadhvi Pragya. In my view, this view is ridiculous.
http://www.countercurrents.org/misra031208.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/sikand291108.htm
WHO GAINS?
1. Definitely the image of India is tarnished and whatever feeling of security was left is also gone. People are disillusioned with politicians, irrespective of parties, and at least for this moment are looking for alternative (though I feel it will die out after some time)
2. As I read the news; the biggest beneficiary will be ISI and the Army of Pakistan. With their tarnished image after lal Masjid episode and fighting against jehadis groups in NWFP, this is a welcome change. They have improved their image in the eyes of radical Muslims. They have bleeded India, and like always, have been able to divert attention of public from home issues to international issues. They have remerged as the champion of the Pakistan cause, as the only saviors who could protect Pakistan against Indian invasion.
3. I expected the Hindu radical parties also to gain from it. But as if now the public support to them in this case is very cold. There is total disillusionment from all political parties.the muslim radical groups will definitely gain, may be both in India and Pakistan. It will also help International Islamic organizations as Muslims all over the world will be again treated partially with suspicion.
http://www.countercurrents.org/sikand031208.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/mathew291108.htm
4. In international stage this will help US- who can fool its public even more now, and continue with its selfish wars against humanity in the name of “war on terror”. This attack will help US in attaining a good change in its international diplomacy. It is well clear by nuclear deal and joint military exercises that US wants India to be its junior partner. This attack showcases US-India-Israel as fellow sufferers. Thus their unity will increase and in that bargain India will have to support US selfish wars by men and money. I won’t be surprised if Indian forces are pulled into Afghan war. With escalating deaths and no end in sight US will try its best to rope in Indian Army in this never ending war.
WHO LOSSES?
1. The biggest looser is Indian public. Hurt, scared and disillusioned it doesn’t know whom to blame and what to expect from its government.
2. The biggest danger is for Indian Muslims. They all may be labeled as terrorists, looked down with suspicion and alienated in their own country. The end result will be a new generation filled with hatred and vengeance which will have the capability to destroy the country. The Muslim leaders of India should immediately ensure that Muslims remain aligned with India and at the same time state should ensure that while individual .
3. the peace process between India and Pakistan will end and this will be definitely a setback for both the countries, while the entire world is uniting here are two countries wasting there energy and resources on each other……… the peaceful coexistence of both the countries will be a boon for both of them.
4. the Indian development – once again terrorism will become the biggest issue in publics mind, and our government will once again ignore other draconian problems facing us- like poverty, unemployment , health care. While we all feel terrorism is the biggest enemy of India, actually it is the poverty, malnutrition and common diseases.
http://www.cghr.org/SRS%20Study%20Brochure.pdf
http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/4BA1A8D4B34F06E36525750C0020E41B?OpenDocument
http://www.whiteribbonalliance-india.org/factsandfigures.htm
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2461713.cms
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS
A. ALREADY PROJECTED:
1. ATTACK PAKISTAN: this was obviously the first knee jerk reaction, of the Indian public and media, Pakistan is responsible for it, so attack it. But we know the civil government is not responsible for it as they don’t hold the actual power only. Even the common men in Pakistan are not anti-India. The authority responsible is ISI and indirectly Army, and they are the people who are going to gain if India attacks Pakistan. There will be human loss, economic loss and both countries will suffer badly. The war may even go nuclear, and the final result will be nothing. The Islamic terrorists in Pakistan will get sympathy and they will develop their network even more. So this should be kept out of question.
2. ATTACK SELECTED TARGETS: this is the next option to target terrorist camps and their headquarters in Lahore, and kill them all. Though emotionally I will also favour such an attack, but practically speaking even this will not yield much solution as only few people will die , and may be even more terrorist are born. After all, Israel is doing this only but has killed more civilians than militants and still the problem remains same. Further it will end all cooperation between India and Pakistan and may even lead to war.
3. TRY DIPLOMACY: I wonder even if this will work. Even if we take the matter to Security Council and Pakistan says it will do something, I don’t think their civil government has enough power to assert over ISI. If this would have worked LeT would not have been still operating from Pakistan.
Then do what, we can’t attack, diplomacy doesn’t work, and then what is the solution??
STRONG INTELLIGENCE: before doing anything outside we need to improve situations inside. Our intelligence has become one of the weakest in the world. There is no efficiency as there is no motivation. When soldiers think that from Mantri to Santri is behind money. Why should I endanger my life? This is has to change and this requires a fundamental change in our society and thinking. Even is US , people give a lot of respect to security forces and intelligence , while in India we care only for money. A strong intelligence is must for a safe nation, and this has been projected from the times of Chanakya (in Arthashastra) to Sun Zu (the author of Art of War). Without proper intelligence a nation can not work. Its efficiency is to increased at any cost.
STRONG SECURITY FORCES: India has one of the least police densities in the world. And whatever is there is for the service of VIP and rich Indians. the leftover is corrupt , inefficient and unmotivated. Its high time we implement police reforms.
http://www.boloji.com/opinion/0568.htm
Though a fundamental change in mindset needs a complete overhaul of system, but atlest take initial steps. De-link politics and security forces and stop doing petty politics demoralizing our security forces. Give them better pay and perks and most of all respect for the dangerous work they do. Stop codemnning them, and stop speaking in favour of terrorists, be it Hindu or Muslim. The army and Navy are suffering from officers shortage. This is the result of capitalist system we copied where certain jobs are considered much better than other jobs. Thus to be a software engg is cool even though you hate computing. People are not patriotic enough to consider the job of defence officer. While we praise them but if asked are you ready to be one- we leave the debate. This needs a complete change in our economic system, where every job is consider to be at par. Remove the bureaucratic delays in improvement of security forces and give them better pay, perks and living environment. The number of suicides shows that there is something rotten even inside armed forces. This thing should be immediately addressed and correct steps should be taken instead of just lip service.
http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/11/stories/2008121155540800.htm
This will not solve the problem but it will bring it down to minimal levels.
COVERT OPERATION: even if Pakistan doesn’t involve revive the covert operation arm of RAW. Though it backfired in the case of LTTE , I feel now it is greatly required. We should not go for civil targets but aim for individuals. How can Dawood Ibrahim roam freely in Pakistan and Dubai, when he has harmed a nation of billion people? How can Masood Azhar and Hafiz Muhammad Saeed appear on media and give free speeches after killing so many innocent Indians. We should prove we are not eunuchs; any one can come and rape our motherland. Its high time covert operations targeting these individuals should be made. This will give a lesson to all the individuals dreaming of attacking India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wrath_of_God
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_prince
Even if Pakistan military doesn’t learn lesson, we should aim for their senior officers and anti-India leaders. The country is already in turmoil, it will give some good results for sure. I hope all these Hindu-radicals who keep beating their chests and killing innocent people will participate in these operations. At least some Bajrang Dal and Shiv Sainiks will show their real valor in such operations, rather then just doing ‘Tamasha’ in public!
But for this Indian government needs guts of steel and RAW should be completely revamped into an efficient and active organization then what it is today.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/19swadas.htm
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jid/jid040701_1_n.shtml
http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/12668
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/%91Sexually-harassed-but-no-one-listening%92:-suicide-bid-at-PMO-by-RAW-director/350996/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_and_Analysis_Wing
LONG TERM SOLUTIONS: As Arundhati Roy says all the above solutions are treatment of symptoms and not the disease.
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=436ZYOImdUc
To treat the disease one needs to understand it and then to cure it needs patience and commitment. First what we should understand is that Islamic terrorism took birth, due to the exploitation of the poor in the name of religion and spread due to the policies of USA itself. It started with US phobia of communism and to counter it, it spread the religious fundamentalism. It started with Iran, and now the same place US considers a member of the Axis of evil, forgetting the evil was created by them only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
The ordinary Persian today also is as secular as yesterday, but thanks to US is ruled by Islamic radicals. [See this year NAT GEO edition on Persia]
Now come to the hot bed of Islamic terrorism- Afghanistan and here also Uncle Sam reared a child yesterday who has become a monster today. And instead of taming the monster, Uncle Sam is throwing acid on him, making it more dangerous then eve before!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
http://beautifulliferocks.blogspot.com/2008/09/who-rules-world.html
the underlying solution is the development and peace rather than war. They way US is carrying out carpet bombing in Afghanistan and now in Pakistan, has not only made Taliban revamp rather, has made entire Afghanistan a failed state. If US don’t change its aggressive policy, even Pakistan may fail and this will be a problem not just for India but entire world!
http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/11/stories/2008121155660900.htm
The only hope is that US hunts down selected terrorists, raise the Afghan army, supply it with required logistics, equip it and then leave Afghanistan. Entire world should make efforts to restore democracy there and biggest of all raise the hope of development and life in those people who have forgotten what is civilization.
Coming over to Pakistan, since its birth, its leaders have found anti-India rhetoric best way to distract their own people from development issues. While the country is still reeling under poverty and feudalism, its upper middle class corrupt politicians found anti-India sentiments as the best way to rule. This changed with the military dictators who joined the US to fill their pockets and strengthen military while common men remains in oblivion. Zia-ul-Haq the poster boy of US brought radical Islam back to Pakistan and the seeds sown by him are bearing the fruits today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zia_ul_Haq
The civilian government there is more interested in making money and somehow sticking to power. (not a surprise with Mr 10% as a president)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E2D61E30F93AA35752C0A96E958260
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/Asif_Ali_Zardari_Mr_Ten_Percent_on_brink_of_Pakistan_presidency/articleshow/3435532.cms
On the other hand is the military power whose only job is to fill their pockets with US dollars and spit venom against India. What is left in the bargain is a country on the verge of economic and social disaster. With no money, no bread, no hope religious fundamentalism is the only buzzword which has brought Pakistan on the verge of becoming a rogue state.
The solution is obviously nothing but a social revolution which can bring hope to its people. That it’s not the religious jihad but a fight against poverty and exploitation which will bring them social justice and life! Till that time, we will have to keep facing a neighbour filled with millions of potential terrorists.
Coming to our own country, I want to mention a fact which at least some Indians have raised. I definitely agree that Mumbai attacks were a blow against democracy, but what about the ongoing civil war in central India. North –eastern India? What about the suicide of 1 Lakh farmers? They are not the news because they are part of Bharat and not India? They are the step child of India and since they don’t party in Taj and Trident we are not bothered about them at all? Millions of poor Indians are getting displaced every year, thousand protest but no one listens. Millions die of malnutrition but we are not bothered. In short, we are not aware, not bothered, not interested that just next to us, a country is dying in hunger and pain. A breeding ground for terrorism, extremism and all social evils. And more than them, we are responsible for this pathetic state of the country.
Next comes the problem of communalism. It’s the right time to crack down on all religious fundamental organizations be it RSS or SIMI. Stop this communal hatred now, before this fire destroys our country! We cannot win this war without the support of our 150 million brothers. At the same time, it is their responsibility to stop all those choosing the path of terror and work together to create a new India.
Though the Mumbai attacks was a gruesome act , it brought one good thing out – unity among the Indians. Though I was expecting a backlash against Muslims at least by verbal rhetoric by Hindu radicals- it did not happen. People from all walk of life came together to denounce it. Be it Hindu or Muslim, rich or poor everyone expressed his anger. For the first time, I remember people rejected the opportunist tactics of all political partied to milk this incident too
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Major_Unnikrishnans_father_refuses_to_meet_Kerala_CM/articleshow/3777042.cms
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/slain-ats-chiefs-family-spurns-modis-monetary-help/16/26/50348/on
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/11/09/stories/2008110959730800.htm
The people of India expressed their anger by rejecting all inefficient political parties out rightly. This incident changed the view of many moderates towards Islamic terrorism, including me! Even the CPI (Maoist) denounced the incident and given a salute to martyrs of Mumbai attacks.
http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-54618.html
This shows a shift in the ideology of most of the Indians, to denounce terrorism but not an entire community. The demonstration by Mulsims against this incident will also go a long way to eradicate terrorism from this community and bring religious harmony.
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=muslim+demonstration+%2B+mumbai+attacks&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/2556
http://www.tuftsdaily.com/a_united_response_to_the_mumbai_attacks
http://www.pragoti.org/node/2667
I will conclude with a request to remove the basic causes behind terrorism rather than eyewash as always! The India is suffering since long, this time the terror came to every middle class household through media. What we need to realize is the other India – Bharat is facing atrocities, exploitation, and hunger everyday. Till the time these inequalities are not removed from society, India will continue to burn. Its time the middle class leave its insensitivity, become more conscious of actual “Bharat” and work towards its all round development. Otherwise this will not be the last time that violence has come from lower strata of the society to the upper class!
JAI HIND!!
Saturday, December 6, 2008
Q & A PART III
Q 19 An odd question: which Indian newspaper do you read or I should ask which newspaper you find most trustworthy? You think our print and electronic media are still influenced by the ideologues of one political party?
Ans I completely agree with you that all newspapers and magazines are influenced , in some cases by political parties , in other cases by capitalist houses. [ HT is owned by Birla’s directly , others are influenced directly or indirectly].
I read 3 newspapers- The Hindu- it provides good news about the hardships India is facing , articles by p Sainath and Siddharth Vardarazan are good and give a good insight about the sorry state of affairs in Indian economics , rural affairs and international affairs too. However it is totally biased for CPI (M). it gave exactly opp news about nandigram , Muthanga, and now even about Chengara's Dalit-Adivasis protest. It gives wrong news about Russia and China internal affairs also. While it is clearly visible that both these countries are suffering from widening economic disparity , all policies are justified by Hindu.
http://www.countercurrents.org/rawat171008.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2005/stories/20030314003603700.htm
http://www.achrweb.org/reports/india/AR06/kerala.htm
http://infochangeindia.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=6698
I read Indian express- its ok newspaper. Third is the Times of India, which is more of a magazine than newspaper with its Page 3 articles and capitalist favoured policy as well as flavor. No wonder for it gay rights are much more important then farmer’s suicide. Still , I read it to get the “ other view”. So basically they all are just information sources , the final assessment is to be done through detailed study , in which sites like Wikipedia, www.concurrent.org, www.indiatogether.com , and various other can be very helpful as they discuss about the actual causes behind the problem and not just the touch therapy. Then definitely nothing better than the books by profound authors – you can start with Arundhati Roys books.
Finally I can say , though we are not in such a bad condition where electronic media has become a mouthpiece of rich corporations like in Italy and to some extent US, but even we are in dangerous situation. While electronic media , with its audio-visual effects has just become a thriller serial, there is no substantial serious news coverage left over there. Print media is struggling , but I think due to so many local papers , print media can always speak out truth in one way or the other. For us, internet can also be a good means.
Q 20. My last question is little different than the rest. You have done extensive research on Bhagat Singh. Could you please tell me why Bhagat Singh did not join Communist party of India despite sympathizing with communism as an ideology? And why CPI did not have any sympathy for Bhagat Singh? In fact, CPI and Bhagat Singh were poles apart, I hope you know.
Ans. Frankly I cant say clearly why they both didn’t recognize each other. Bhagat singhs ideas were revolutionary but in his lifetime he was not able to organize a very large party. To overcome this only, to prove that they are freedom fighters and not terrorists, Bhagat singh threw the bomb in assembly. It was only during his trials that people became aware of his ideals of universal brotherhood and equality. He gave a new direction to the communist movement of India, but he himself sacrificed his life in the process. Moreover, he believed In complete ouster of Britishers from India and establishment of a just society. I feel the CPI (Maoist) / Naxalites are somewhat working in the same direction.
CPI was more systematic in its approach. It has international support, good organization and intelligent thinkers. But what is lacked was that zeal which was there is Bhagat Singh and his comrades. They were not clear of their means to achieve the end, and fell into the temptation of joining politics to achieve their ends. However, with time the little zeal for a social change was diminished by the petty politics and enthusiasm to win more seats. No wonder, all those who wanted “real change’ like Charu Mazumdar parted their ways from CPI (M) and whatever is left today is an opportunistic party which is power hungry and kills its own people for capitalists. [ NANDIGRAM , SINGUR, Muthanga, Chengara] all are clear indications of a party with intelligent people but wrong ways. In no way they can claim to be working for the cause of social change, for the equality and upliftment of everyone.
Epilogue: thanks a lot for your questions, by answering them I have given answers to some of the questions brewing in my mind. I hope they will show something different from what you have seen and experienced uptill now. The things in today’s world are so complex and treacherous that it is very easy to fall prey to any rhetoric. To save ourselves we just have one tool; our thinking with logic and reasoning. What we should understand is no incident happens in its individuality; it has long chain of events preceding it and will have long events following it. Before coming to a hasty conclusion we should cater for all these factors because then only we can realize any incident in its true context.
Ans I completely agree with you that all newspapers and magazines are influenced , in some cases by political parties , in other cases by capitalist houses. [ HT is owned by Birla’s directly , others are influenced directly or indirectly].
I read 3 newspapers- The Hindu- it provides good news about the hardships India is facing , articles by p Sainath and Siddharth Vardarazan are good and give a good insight about the sorry state of affairs in Indian economics , rural affairs and international affairs too. However it is totally biased for CPI (M). it gave exactly opp news about nandigram , Muthanga, and now even about Chengara's Dalit-Adivasis protest. It gives wrong news about Russia and China internal affairs also. While it is clearly visible that both these countries are suffering from widening economic disparity , all policies are justified by Hindu.
http://www.countercurrents.org/rawat171008.htm
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2005/stories/20030314003603700.htm
http://www.achrweb.org/reports/india/AR06/kerala.htm
http://infochangeindia.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=6698
I read Indian express- its ok newspaper. Third is the Times of India, which is more of a magazine than newspaper with its Page 3 articles and capitalist favoured policy as well as flavor. No wonder for it gay rights are much more important then farmer’s suicide. Still , I read it to get the “ other view”. So basically they all are just information sources , the final assessment is to be done through detailed study , in which sites like Wikipedia, www.concurrent.org, www.indiatogether.com , and various other can be very helpful as they discuss about the actual causes behind the problem and not just the touch therapy. Then definitely nothing better than the books by profound authors – you can start with Arundhati Roys books.
Finally I can say , though we are not in such a bad condition where electronic media has become a mouthpiece of rich corporations like in Italy and to some extent US, but even we are in dangerous situation. While electronic media , with its audio-visual effects has just become a thriller serial, there is no substantial serious news coverage left over there. Print media is struggling , but I think due to so many local papers , print media can always speak out truth in one way or the other. For us, internet can also be a good means.
Q 20. My last question is little different than the rest. You have done extensive research on Bhagat Singh. Could you please tell me why Bhagat Singh did not join Communist party of India despite sympathizing with communism as an ideology? And why CPI did not have any sympathy for Bhagat Singh? In fact, CPI and Bhagat Singh were poles apart, I hope you know.
Ans. Frankly I cant say clearly why they both didn’t recognize each other. Bhagat singhs ideas were revolutionary but in his lifetime he was not able to organize a very large party. To overcome this only, to prove that they are freedom fighters and not terrorists, Bhagat singh threw the bomb in assembly. It was only during his trials that people became aware of his ideals of universal brotherhood and equality. He gave a new direction to the communist movement of India, but he himself sacrificed his life in the process. Moreover, he believed In complete ouster of Britishers from India and establishment of a just society. I feel the CPI (Maoist) / Naxalites are somewhat working in the same direction.
CPI was more systematic in its approach. It has international support, good organization and intelligent thinkers. But what is lacked was that zeal which was there is Bhagat Singh and his comrades. They were not clear of their means to achieve the end, and fell into the temptation of joining politics to achieve their ends. However, with time the little zeal for a social change was diminished by the petty politics and enthusiasm to win more seats. No wonder, all those who wanted “real change’ like Charu Mazumdar parted their ways from CPI (M) and whatever is left today is an opportunistic party which is power hungry and kills its own people for capitalists. [ NANDIGRAM , SINGUR, Muthanga, Chengara] all are clear indications of a party with intelligent people but wrong ways. In no way they can claim to be working for the cause of social change, for the equality and upliftment of everyone.
Epilogue: thanks a lot for your questions, by answering them I have given answers to some of the questions brewing in my mind. I hope they will show something different from what you have seen and experienced uptill now. The things in today’s world are so complex and treacherous that it is very easy to fall prey to any rhetoric. To save ourselves we just have one tool; our thinking with logic and reasoning. What we should understand is no incident happens in its individuality; it has long chain of events preceding it and will have long events following it. Before coming to a hasty conclusion we should cater for all these factors because then only we can realize any incident in its true context.
Thursday, December 4, 2008
Q&A CONT...............
Q 10) What are your views on Islamic fundamentalism? You think Islam is a different religion as compared to other religions? Or you are not sure? Or do you treat all religions with equal contempt?
Ans. In my view, the basic aim of all religions in todays world is common – fool the common people for the personal benefit of few- the same thing Napoleon said many years before. Even Hinduism today is full of superstition and becoming fundamentalist day by day. Its exploitation based on caste system is unparallel in any other religion.
Now my view about Islam..... it is as stupid a religion as Judaism , Hinduism or Christianity. It also propagates many wrong things, other than good things like love all human beings. Mahummad left one of his many wives becoz she was left alone and came back with another caravan...they all are same.... preaching non sense..
And what makes Islam worst was its nature not to accept any criticism. And no wonder this makes Muslims allover the world most underdeveloped and illogical.... Since it was the youngest major religion to come in world, since its inception it is involved in wars and this makes it very much fundamentalist. But when Islam confronted Hinduism, which at that time was analogous to Humanism, it could not spread widely. This led to the midway between the two religions- the birth of Sufism and Bhakti cult . thus I believe in India the Islam is more moderate than Arabic one. The Deobandi and barelvy school of thought supports this. But due to inherent rigidity in Islam and being in minority , the fear factor in Muslims can be easily exploited! So it is for the majority to ensure that they get equal rights and don’t get alienated in their own country, else they could easily be driven to terrorism!
Q 11. You mentioned once that you used to subscribe to 'Hindu ideology' until you got familiar with Bhagat Singh's thoughts which turned you into a communist.Now thats very interesting if its true because my story is bit similar.When I was growing up,communism appealed to me very much but then few things happened and I started seeing the world
in new light and I turned into rightist (not a Hindu ideologue though).My question is what is that 'Hindu ideology' you subscribed to?
Ans. I think you must have been disillusioned by communism after seeing the so called pseudo-communist parties of India – the CPI (M) , CPI, etc whom as I described earlier -other bunch of jokers, those good for nothing who are completely opposite of a communist. A communist can never support SEZ and CPI (M) has killed its own people for SEZ in Nandigram and SIngur.
they do only bakwas and nothing else. they are pseudo communists like their Chinese brothers and Lula of Brazil who preach Communism and follow Capitalism. Muh mein Ram bagal mein Churi.....
http://news.indiainfo.com/2008/11/12/0811121754_cpi-m_activists_life_term_singur_girls_murder.html
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/cpim-workers-held-guilty-of-singur-protesters-murder/77916-3.html
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/nov/16nandi6.htm
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070032158&ch=11/7/2007%2010:52:00%20PM
Now my returning back to the Hinduism which I supported – I will write a full post on that later. As if now I can say I was just a fundamentalist who believed Hinduism is best religion and it is the solution to all the worlds problems. All schools should be Saraswati shishu mandir , all Muslims either converted or killed ! But now I know it was my mind which didn’t know how to think , it just used to accept things without questioning them or ever looking at facts and truth.
Q 12. Do you believe in democracy? Do you think it has been a success in our country?
Ans.) Yes I believe in true definition of democracy . of the people, by the people and for the people. Do u think we follow the true definition of democracy or its has become by the rich ( as they sponsor election campaign for all major parties) , of the rich ( most leaders and ministers are directly or indirectly obliged by industrialists) and for the rich ( all government machinery works so that rich can become richer).
I wonder if I need to elaborate that this type of khichdi democracy has been a failure in India. Ya we have got right to speak , but no action is taken , u keep saying whatever u want to as no one cares. Ministers are totally corrupt and just know how to fool people in elections on isues of religion , caste , reservation , 2 rs kg rice and now terrorism . No one wants poverty to go ……. As this will reduce their vote bank. No one wants people to be educated, else who will give them vote just for Rs 100. it is a business now.
Next is executive – who make policies to please the mantari ji o capitalist ji – after all they also want to be famous and rich. No need to talk about corruption.
Next is judiciary – which shows it is damn concerned about country by giving some good decisions. But inherently they have also become corrupt. There are millions of cases pending, innocent are their in jails while powerful criminals are roaming free. None of the ministers or political leader has been punished even after so many scandals.
[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/CJI_set_to_sack_HC_judge_for_Ghaziabad_PF_scam/articleshow/3692981.cms][ http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2170844.cms]
READ THE GREAT INDIAN DREAM – MALAY CHAUDHARI for more on this and other issues before India
Country is reeling under poverty and hunger . India is 124th in human development Index , last few in child mortality , and last few in maternal death.. 60% earn below Rs 40 a day- do u think they can meet any of their basic needs. 40 crore people work in industrial unorganized sector, without any health and death benefit. Majority of famers are debt ridden and forced to suicide. Human trafficking is flourishing like anything. Middle class is lost in its own world . Middle class youth are more concerned about Sex and Fun then country and people. Naxalism, terrorism and Fascism are beoming stronger day by day. If things continue like this days are not far when we will be seeing a full grown civil war in India. I hope these links will be more than enough to prove what I am saying here is right!!
[http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/26/stories/2007102653981200.htm]
[http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/4BA1A8D4B34F06E36525750C0020E41B?OpenDocument]
[http://www.cghr.org/SRS%20Study%20Brochure.pdf
http://www.whiteribbonalliance-india.org/factsandfigures.htm
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2461713.cms
Q 13. You have shown your displeasure with all major political parties in India,including the communists.May I know who will you vote for then or you won't vote at all.(My honest guess is no matter what you say in public,you still prefer one over another)
Ans Sorry dude your guess is wrong , I do not vote for any party as none of them can make the changes I want to see in our society…. because this system itself is a sham, where years after years parties keep changing but the pathetic condition of peoples remain the same. This pseudo democracy ensures that elections are fought on stupid issues and the real power rests with the capitalists. While the poor remains poor and thus provides cheap labour to the rich.
Q 14 . As you know,radical Hindus always see everyone and every event as pro or anti-Hindu.Radical Islamists see the world as full of Muslims and non-Muslims.Communists have this tendency to see the world as full of peasants and landlords.Are you one of them? Do you think there are only three kinds of people in the world: peasants,landlords and middlemen? I still don't understand why you called Patel a landlord.
Ans what u means to say is that a particular idealism blinds the person and he cannot see beyond it. I fully agree with it, after all no one thinks his ideology or he is wrong! That is why I try to read articles from different persons of different ideologies, but still articles related to communism appeals to me most- as they talk about scientific progress of mankind. They don’t give some utopian dreams and give a definite path for human progress. Though the path has been hijacked by opportunists from Khrushchev, Den Xiaoping to CPI, CPI (M), Lula of today.
Well though not peasants and landlords India is divided into three societies – rich , middle class and poor .
And I will describe all three of them so that u can see them clearly yourself-
Rich: they own the world. They are the Tatas , Birlas and Ambanis , etc. Great books are written about them, how they changed the world and anything bad wriiten about them is banned. They are the real sources of power – the controllers of politics. they appear to be clean by never directly getting involved directly in politics. But they pull the strings from behind the curtain. The economic policies, the international politics, the labor laws, the privatization and even nationalism is controlled by them. The state works for them, the police ensures them protection and no one can question them. They are the favourite of media and always in limelight about the “intelligence” and “hard work “and never about their corrupt means and exploitive ways. They , their children , their families are above laws and resoning. They spend their nights in Page 3 parties and remain tensed on what to wear in next party, how to get richer from their brother, how to make most expensive home , and blab la. However due to the great sources they command they exploit the most resources and are less than 1% of the population.
[The Polyester Prince-unauthorized Ambani biography by Hamish McDonald, the former New Delhi bureau chief of the Far Eastern Economic Review]
The next comes the great Indian middle class which is roughly 20 % of our population. It had great expectations from the Independent India and ny 1980s it was frustrated, lazy , easy going generation who used to eat, fart and criticize the government. But economic liberalization changed it. The economy of consumerism brought all the consumer durables to our doorstep. This created an entire generation X which is fed by dreams of a world which is not only selfish but never satisfying. We gave the comfort of our home to live alone and earn money. Love was replaced by lust and satisfaction by a never ending rat race. The need to be above others, to prove we are better; we lost our kindness and empathy. We lost the trust and human feeling for others; we can no longer see the stark poverty and misery and keep feeling sick only for ourselves. For more:
THE GREAT INDIAN MIDDLE CLASS
by Pavan K. Varma
“ For the burgeoning and upwardly mobile middle class of India, such poverty has ceased to exist. It has ceased to exist because it does not create in most of its members the slightest motivation to do something about it. Its existence is taken for granted. Its symptoms, which would revolt even the most sympathetic foreign observer, do not even register any more. The general approach is to get on with one's life, to carve out a tiny island of well-being in a sea of deprivation. The utter obsession with individual survival and betterment and the complete absence of a sense of social obligation is not unlike a system of apartheid, rendered more insidious because the perpetuators no longer even notice the conditions of those they have banished. The concern with personal salvation at the spiritual plane had assumed, at the temporal
level, a Frankenstein form: the almost complete inability to see or identify with anything beyond the narrowest definition of self-interest. The absence of a strong moral imperative for social altruism had resulted, under the tutelage of unethical leaders and opportunistic politics, in a horribly bloated unconcern for society itself. The end product was the acceptance of a certain kind of lifestyle: insular, aggressive, selfish, obsessed with material gain and socially callous. “
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=19980427&fname=exclusive_extracts&sid=1
Next comes the Poor – the wide 60 % of our population who doesn’t know where there next meal will come from. The abandoned people of Bharat whom no one writes, thinks and cares about. sick of everything they have no one to help to – and these people provide the breeding ground for terrorism, naxalism and various other problems. But are they solely responsible to it? Or it’s the mistake of the nation which cannot provide them the basic necessities of life!
From TIME magazine
“What about the poor? The statistics speak for themselves. Half of all Indian children are undernourished, and half of all adult women suffer from anemia. According to the latest U.N. Development Programme Human Development Report, India has among the highest undernutrition levels in the world, along with Ethiopia and Bangladesh. In fact, Bangladesh is doing better than India in many measures of development, such as rates of infant and maternal mortality and of school enrollment. Despite India's faster economic growth, Bangladesh is progressing quicker in health and nutrition indicators: in 1990, India had an infant mortality rate of 80 per 1,000 live births, compared with 96 in Bangladesh. Today, the ranking is reversed: 67 in India and 51 in Bangladesh.
This is one illustration of the lopsided nature of economic growth in India nowadays. The gains of faster growth have been largely captured by the privileged. The poor, for their part, barely manage to continue their slow exit from hunger and misery. It is often argued that rising inequality is the price of economic dynamism, and that nothing can be done about it.”
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501041206/two_indias_vpt_dreze.html
http://www.indiatogether.org/poverty/
http://www.indiatogether.org/2007/oct/ksh-invisible.htm
When I called Sardar Patel a landlord, I meant he belonged to a class favorable to the rich. He was a good friend of the business families of India, predominantly the Birlas. None of his policy was for the upliftment of the poor and actually he never cared for the social change in India. Though he was instrumental in settling down any armed revolution against the British through his negotiations. In fact the change from British Raj to Congress was what Bhagat Singh had described earlier,” From white exploiter to black exploiter.”
Q 15 Harkishen Singh Surjeet,late CPM leader had said: "Minority communalism is less harmful than majority communalism" .Do you agree?
Ans This was the question which took a lot of my time, as was not very sure of the answer, after the recent Mumbai carnage.
In my view, communalism of any sort is wrong. Killing or harassment of one person by another in the name of religion can not be justified by any way. It is used by basically the radicals of either community to gain support and thus power. Be it RSS or SIMI , none of them are interested in the protection or development of their communities. They are interested in developing the fear of “other” community in their community and project themselves as the defender of their communities and thus gain power – which then brings lot of money and resources .But definitely the causes and results of minority and majority communalism vary.
Minority communalism can now be viewed in two contexts – one of internal Muslim dissatisfaction of Indian state, the fear of the majority and the resulting discontent from it. The other is the external Islamic terrorism- the blend of external terror groups, their sympathizers in India and the support provided by corrupt Indian machinery.
The cause and effect of the first kind I have already discussed in detail in my previous post. To touch upon it, the home grown Islamic terrorism is projected more than required. They are the most degraded class of human society who kill innocent people to express their anger and disgust. But to see entire Muslim population of India involved in it is stupid and naïve. To kill an innocent person in Ahmedabad because someone has killed other innocent people in Godhra, leads to further alienation and growth of terrorism. While the real culprits should definitely be caught and butchered, we should be careful that innocents are not punished. No way, should one community be placed against another, as finally it will be the common men who will suffer while the rich and powerful politicians will enjoy their luxuries.
Coming to next – international Islamic terrorism, it is definitely a serious threat to our country. This is a powerful force with international funding, training and logistic support as well as sympathizers in our own country. And to fight them will need lot of improvement in our will and working. It will need a full overhaul of our intelligence and security systems. To fight them we need powerful, well motivated forces. How can you expect that one person will give his life for his nation without any hesitation when he knows after him no one will care a damn about his family, his family members will have to fight corruption at every step? [I hope u have seen movie “DHOOP”] How he can be a selfless son, when we all just care of ourselves and our needs? How can he be dedicated to his service, when he knows everyone –from Mantri to Santri- is just behind money and their selfish needs? The people are there, the forces are there, the laws are there – what we need is a correct implementation. We need full rights to the forces, a system where they are motivated and dedicated. Where they are sure once they are gone there are people and system to take care of their families and no one will harass them. No wonder while French surrendered so easily in WW II, so many Russians gave their lives – to save their Fatherland from the Hitler!
Now let us come to the majority communalism. Why all the media and intelligentsia of India are always behind Hindu radical groups, can’t they see the anger and frustration developing among Hindus?
The best way to divert the attention of public from the incompetence, corruption and wrong doing of the government is by raising sentimental issues such as caste, religion and race. From time to time when rulers are not able to satisfy their publics they raise a pseudo fear or pride in their people and exploit it for their personal gains. When the public of Germany was dissatisfied with the ill- governance, rampant corruption, unemployment, and impositions by the treat of Versailles, the Fascism rose its head in that country and what followed was horrible not only for that country but for entire world. An entire generation was left with its scars, a huge mankind killed, disabled or helpless. Millions became widow, orphans or lost their loves in the most scary war mankind ever witnessed. That is the result of majority communalism. In Kashmir, when majority became communal, we witnessed the mass exodus of Kashmir Hindus, which left Lakhs of people homeless and unemployed. While minority communalism leads to terrorism, the majority communalism leads to Fascism, genocide and civil wars! And though no one can justify the killing of innocent people in the name of terrorism its potential is much less than Fascism. Though Fascism takes time to develop, once in power it ensures that its parent country is doomed.
Q 16 Why is that radical Islamists in our country when pose as liberals always take refuge in the ideology of communism despite their own contempt for communism? You are free not to answer this question if you did not understand it. We can discuss this later.
Ans I understood your question but I don’t know if any of the Muslim radical organization supports any true communist organization. Since communists propose an Atheist theory, it is fundamentally against Radical elements of any religion. Rather as much as I am aware, Muslims have distanced themselves from CPI (Maoist) , despite their poor state. U can expand what you want to say.
http://www.indiapost.com/article/perspective/2469/
Q 17 You think India is a truly secular country? I mean, in terms of existing laws and the constitution
Ans. I think you are referring here to the Muslims appeasing laws in our constitution. You are right and they are not justified at all. Law should be same for every citizen of the country. These laws have been made by the Congress for Muslim appeasement. As I said earlier, Congress first ensures that Muslims remain underdeveloped and suffer and then Congress can project itself as their Messiah! No wonder working on same lines it is not taking any action against Raj Thackeray.
Q 18 What according to you is your solution to the Kashmir problem?
I wrote it in my blog I think just reproducing it here . the solution is same as for the rest of India. Stop looking for political gains in every issue, stop playing with the lives and sentiments of the people; they are on the verge of explosion.
Bring development, education, food and healthcare. Give social justice and freedom and most of the problems like Naxalism, terrorism and Kashmir problem will be solved automatically. But problem is no one actually wants to solve it!
The article by Arundhati Roy was extremely thought provoking as always. Her view points are always different from the common folk and one which look at the inner depth of any topic. But this time I beg to differ from her on many issues. The essence of her topic was Azadi for Kashmir.
I will first like to ask a simple question what is Azadi or freedom? Is it about calling a country yours? In that case ndians are free and happy, but we know majority of them are not. Is it about the freedom that your religion is proclaimed as the state religion? In that case all Pakistanis should be free and happy. But we know that it is one of the most disturbed countries in the world. Then what is freedom? Before answering this question let us look at the problems in Kashmir today.
I feel the earlier problems of Kashmir before 1990s were same as of entire India.But with a difference that India was never able to convince the people of Kashmir that they are a part of India. And rightly so, just because a king signs a piece of paper against people’s wishes doesn’t change their nationality. Kashmiri’s neither wanted to join India nor Pakistan and it was the influence of moderate Sufi culture of Kashmir which kept them away from communalism.
But like many of India’s provinces, after Independence Kashmir was also marginalized in cases of development and growth. While rest of the India just cursed its politician for their sorry states of affair Kasmiris had a different opinion. Their shrewd politicians capitalized on their belief and convinced them that the only solution to their problems is independence from Indian state. After strong pubic processions this was followed by armed militancy, logistically well supported by Pakistan. It helped Pakistan in Two ways- a revenge of what happened in 1971 as well as a distraction from its internal affairs. It helped even Indian state to divert public attention from issues of poverty and development to false nationalism. Instead of finding the root causes of the problem, they easily deployed the Army.
One cannot solely blame the Army for whatever atrocities were carried out by them. Military solution to freedom movements is never viable. The Indian army which suppressed the armed militancy itself got frustrated and took out this frustration on Kashmiri awam. To make the matters worse, successive Kasmiri government did nothing to improve the situation. They satisfied their appetite through corruption and never carried out, again, any serious development. Sick of their state governments policies
And frustrated with militancy and its aftereffects, Kashmir was like a bomb waiting to explode, The spark was provided again by our cheap politicians. While it was PDP minister only, who signed the land transfer it played full role in igniting the passions and making a issue out of nothing. Similarly Hindutava fascist forces brought element of national and religious pride to gain political mileage. But they have never perceived that people’s emotions will erupt like this! Now even the leaders are following the public and freedom is the buzzword.
But freedom against whom, and what type of freedom. Independent Kashmir? India also became independent 60 years back and still majority of us are suffering? And then it is going to increase the suffering for Kashmiri pundits, suffering since decades already. And what if Pakistan attacks an independent Kashmir, whom will they turn to then, back to India? The worst thing in her article was when she talks about people speaking publicly in favour of Pakistan. There is not an iota of doubt that even if Kashmir joins Pakistan; the suffering of its people is going to increase only! But still how can Indian citizens speak in favour of joining Pakistan and how can Indian people take it? Our state puts a pro poor person like Dr Binayak Sen in prison for conspiring against state when he just brought out the sufferings of Indian tribes at the hand of government. And what are they doing now, listening to pro Pakistani slogans. I cannot take it any cost, they all should be imprisoned!
Thirdly though I also favour, like her, pro people movements, but can India take the risk of free Kashmir? An independent Kashmir can bring a new wave of jehadis, due to their hatred against India. It can become an ally of USA. Many countries will try to woo it, considering its strategic location next to two emerging world powers. Then if we free Kashmir today, tomorrow any politician of any non Hindi state can woo its people with anti India slogan, for his personal gains! We cannot afford an independent Kashmir!
Then what is the solution? The most feasible solution is division of Jammu and Kashmir as the people of both parts have lost trust in each other. Second, giving something like Dominion status to Kashmir, their government, economy and culture but India’s defence. But before all this the urgent requirement is the end of selfish politics, restoration of faith In Kashmiri people about India and a true dream of development and upliftment of people
But i don't see any of our politicians interested in doing anything like that. What they will do is to maintain the status quo. This will frustrate the Kashmiri people again. And frustrated with no action, we can witness a new wave of terrorism. The final result being more deaths and more misery as there is no military solution to this problem. But who cares? No Kashmiri politician’s son becomes a militant and no Indian politician’s son joins the army. Finally it’s just the innocent public who will die again on both he sides.
The essence of freedom is freedom from poverty, hunger, illiteracy, unemployment and backwardness. And it is not the question of just Kashmir’s Azadi; it is the freedom that entire India is seeking!
http://beautifulliferocks.blogspot.com/2008/08/kashmir-burning.html
Ans. In my view, the basic aim of all religions in todays world is common – fool the common people for the personal benefit of few- the same thing Napoleon said many years before. Even Hinduism today is full of superstition and becoming fundamentalist day by day. Its exploitation based on caste system is unparallel in any other religion.
Now my view about Islam..... it is as stupid a religion as Judaism , Hinduism or Christianity. It also propagates many wrong things, other than good things like love all human beings. Mahummad left one of his many wives becoz she was left alone and came back with another caravan...they all are same.... preaching non sense..
And what makes Islam worst was its nature not to accept any criticism. And no wonder this makes Muslims allover the world most underdeveloped and illogical.... Since it was the youngest major religion to come in world, since its inception it is involved in wars and this makes it very much fundamentalist. But when Islam confronted Hinduism, which at that time was analogous to Humanism, it could not spread widely. This led to the midway between the two religions- the birth of Sufism and Bhakti cult . thus I believe in India the Islam is more moderate than Arabic one. The Deobandi and barelvy school of thought supports this. But due to inherent rigidity in Islam and being in minority , the fear factor in Muslims can be easily exploited! So it is for the majority to ensure that they get equal rights and don’t get alienated in their own country, else they could easily be driven to terrorism!
Q 11. You mentioned once that you used to subscribe to 'Hindu ideology' until you got familiar with Bhagat Singh's thoughts which turned you into a communist.Now thats very interesting if its true because my story is bit similar.When I was growing up,communism appealed to me very much but then few things happened and I started seeing the world
in new light and I turned into rightist (not a Hindu ideologue though).My question is what is that 'Hindu ideology' you subscribed to?
Ans. I think you must have been disillusioned by communism after seeing the so called pseudo-communist parties of India – the CPI (M) , CPI, etc whom as I described earlier -other bunch of jokers, those good for nothing who are completely opposite of a communist. A communist can never support SEZ and CPI (M) has killed its own people for SEZ in Nandigram and SIngur.
they do only bakwas and nothing else. they are pseudo communists like their Chinese brothers and Lula of Brazil who preach Communism and follow Capitalism. Muh mein Ram bagal mein Churi.....
http://news.indiainfo.com/2008/11/12/0811121754_cpi-m_activists_life_term_singur_girls_murder.html
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/cpim-workers-held-guilty-of-singur-protesters-murder/77916-3.html
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/nov/16nandi6.htm
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070032158&ch=11/7/2007%2010:52:00%20PM
Now my returning back to the Hinduism which I supported – I will write a full post on that later. As if now I can say I was just a fundamentalist who believed Hinduism is best religion and it is the solution to all the worlds problems. All schools should be Saraswati shishu mandir , all Muslims either converted or killed ! But now I know it was my mind which didn’t know how to think , it just used to accept things without questioning them or ever looking at facts and truth.
Q 12. Do you believe in democracy? Do you think it has been a success in our country?
Ans.) Yes I believe in true definition of democracy . of the people, by the people and for the people. Do u think we follow the true definition of democracy or its has become by the rich ( as they sponsor election campaign for all major parties) , of the rich ( most leaders and ministers are directly or indirectly obliged by industrialists) and for the rich ( all government machinery works so that rich can become richer).
I wonder if I need to elaborate that this type of khichdi democracy has been a failure in India. Ya we have got right to speak , but no action is taken , u keep saying whatever u want to as no one cares. Ministers are totally corrupt and just know how to fool people in elections on isues of religion , caste , reservation , 2 rs kg rice and now terrorism . No one wants poverty to go ……. As this will reduce their vote bank. No one wants people to be educated, else who will give them vote just for Rs 100. it is a business now.
Next is executive – who make policies to please the mantari ji o capitalist ji – after all they also want to be famous and rich. No need to talk about corruption.
Next is judiciary – which shows it is damn concerned about country by giving some good decisions. But inherently they have also become corrupt. There are millions of cases pending, innocent are their in jails while powerful criminals are roaming free. None of the ministers or political leader has been punished even after so many scandals.
[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/CJI_set_to_sack_HC_judge_for_Ghaziabad_PF_scam/articleshow/3692981.cms][ http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2170844.cms]
READ THE GREAT INDIAN DREAM – MALAY CHAUDHARI for more on this and other issues before India
Country is reeling under poverty and hunger . India is 124th in human development Index , last few in child mortality , and last few in maternal death.. 60% earn below Rs 40 a day- do u think they can meet any of their basic needs. 40 crore people work in industrial unorganized sector, without any health and death benefit. Majority of famers are debt ridden and forced to suicide. Human trafficking is flourishing like anything. Middle class is lost in its own world . Middle class youth are more concerned about Sex and Fun then country and people. Naxalism, terrorism and Fascism are beoming stronger day by day. If things continue like this days are not far when we will be seeing a full grown civil war in India. I hope these links will be more than enough to prove what I am saying here is right!!
[http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/26/stories/2007102653981200.htm]
[http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/4BA1A8D4B34F06E36525750C0020E41B?OpenDocument]
[http://www.cghr.org/SRS%20Study%20Brochure.pdf
http://www.whiteribbonalliance-india.org/factsandfigures.htm
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2461713.cms
Q 13. You have shown your displeasure with all major political parties in India,including the communists.May I know who will you vote for then or you won't vote at all.(My honest guess is no matter what you say in public,you still prefer one over another)
Ans Sorry dude your guess is wrong , I do not vote for any party as none of them can make the changes I want to see in our society…. because this system itself is a sham, where years after years parties keep changing but the pathetic condition of peoples remain the same. This pseudo democracy ensures that elections are fought on stupid issues and the real power rests with the capitalists. While the poor remains poor and thus provides cheap labour to the rich.
Q 14 . As you know,radical Hindus always see everyone and every event as pro or anti-Hindu.Radical Islamists see the world as full of Muslims and non-Muslims.Communists have this tendency to see the world as full of peasants and landlords.Are you one of them? Do you think there are only three kinds of people in the world: peasants,landlords and middlemen? I still don't understand why you called Patel a landlord.
Ans what u means to say is that a particular idealism blinds the person and he cannot see beyond it. I fully agree with it, after all no one thinks his ideology or he is wrong! That is why I try to read articles from different persons of different ideologies, but still articles related to communism appeals to me most- as they talk about scientific progress of mankind. They don’t give some utopian dreams and give a definite path for human progress. Though the path has been hijacked by opportunists from Khrushchev, Den Xiaoping to CPI, CPI (M), Lula of today.
Well though not peasants and landlords India is divided into three societies – rich , middle class and poor .
And I will describe all three of them so that u can see them clearly yourself-
Rich: they own the world. They are the Tatas , Birlas and Ambanis , etc. Great books are written about them, how they changed the world and anything bad wriiten about them is banned. They are the real sources of power – the controllers of politics. they appear to be clean by never directly getting involved directly in politics. But they pull the strings from behind the curtain. The economic policies, the international politics, the labor laws, the privatization and even nationalism is controlled by them. The state works for them, the police ensures them protection and no one can question them. They are the favourite of media and always in limelight about the “intelligence” and “hard work “and never about their corrupt means and exploitive ways. They , their children , their families are above laws and resoning. They spend their nights in Page 3 parties and remain tensed on what to wear in next party, how to get richer from their brother, how to make most expensive home , and blab la. However due to the great sources they command they exploit the most resources and are less than 1% of the population.
[The Polyester Prince-unauthorized Ambani biography by Hamish McDonald, the former New Delhi bureau chief of the Far Eastern Economic Review]
The next comes the great Indian middle class which is roughly 20 % of our population. It had great expectations from the Independent India and ny 1980s it was frustrated, lazy , easy going generation who used to eat, fart and criticize the government. But economic liberalization changed it. The economy of consumerism brought all the consumer durables to our doorstep. This created an entire generation X which is fed by dreams of a world which is not only selfish but never satisfying. We gave the comfort of our home to live alone and earn money. Love was replaced by lust and satisfaction by a never ending rat race. The need to be above others, to prove we are better; we lost our kindness and empathy. We lost the trust and human feeling for others; we can no longer see the stark poverty and misery and keep feeling sick only for ourselves. For more:
THE GREAT INDIAN MIDDLE CLASS
by Pavan K. Varma
“ For the burgeoning and upwardly mobile middle class of India, such poverty has ceased to exist. It has ceased to exist because it does not create in most of its members the slightest motivation to do something about it. Its existence is taken for granted. Its symptoms, which would revolt even the most sympathetic foreign observer, do not even register any more. The general approach is to get on with one's life, to carve out a tiny island of well-being in a sea of deprivation. The utter obsession with individual survival and betterment and the complete absence of a sense of social obligation is not unlike a system of apartheid, rendered more insidious because the perpetuators no longer even notice the conditions of those they have banished. The concern with personal salvation at the spiritual plane had assumed, at the temporal
level, a Frankenstein form: the almost complete inability to see or identify with anything beyond the narrowest definition of self-interest. The absence of a strong moral imperative for social altruism had resulted, under the tutelage of unethical leaders and opportunistic politics, in a horribly bloated unconcern for society itself. The end product was the acceptance of a certain kind of lifestyle: insular, aggressive, selfish, obsessed with material gain and socially callous. “
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=19980427&fname=exclusive_extracts&sid=1
Next comes the Poor – the wide 60 % of our population who doesn’t know where there next meal will come from. The abandoned people of Bharat whom no one writes, thinks and cares about. sick of everything they have no one to help to – and these people provide the breeding ground for terrorism, naxalism and various other problems. But are they solely responsible to it? Or it’s the mistake of the nation which cannot provide them the basic necessities of life!
From TIME magazine
“What about the poor? The statistics speak for themselves. Half of all Indian children are undernourished, and half of all adult women suffer from anemia. According to the latest U.N. Development Programme Human Development Report, India has among the highest undernutrition levels in the world, along with Ethiopia and Bangladesh. In fact, Bangladesh is doing better than India in many measures of development, such as rates of infant and maternal mortality and of school enrollment. Despite India's faster economic growth, Bangladesh is progressing quicker in health and nutrition indicators: in 1990, India had an infant mortality rate of 80 per 1,000 live births, compared with 96 in Bangladesh. Today, the ranking is reversed: 67 in India and 51 in Bangladesh.
This is one illustration of the lopsided nature of economic growth in India nowadays. The gains of faster growth have been largely captured by the privileged. The poor, for their part, barely manage to continue their slow exit from hunger and misery. It is often argued that rising inequality is the price of economic dynamism, and that nothing can be done about it.”
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501041206/two_indias_vpt_dreze.html
http://www.indiatogether.org/poverty/
http://www.indiatogether.org/2007/oct/ksh-invisible.htm
When I called Sardar Patel a landlord, I meant he belonged to a class favorable to the rich. He was a good friend of the business families of India, predominantly the Birlas. None of his policy was for the upliftment of the poor and actually he never cared for the social change in India. Though he was instrumental in settling down any armed revolution against the British through his negotiations. In fact the change from British Raj to Congress was what Bhagat Singh had described earlier,” From white exploiter to black exploiter.”
Q 15 Harkishen Singh Surjeet,late CPM leader had said: "Minority communalism is less harmful than majority communalism" .Do you agree?
Ans This was the question which took a lot of my time, as was not very sure of the answer, after the recent Mumbai carnage.
In my view, communalism of any sort is wrong. Killing or harassment of one person by another in the name of religion can not be justified by any way. It is used by basically the radicals of either community to gain support and thus power. Be it RSS or SIMI , none of them are interested in the protection or development of their communities. They are interested in developing the fear of “other” community in their community and project themselves as the defender of their communities and thus gain power – which then brings lot of money and resources .But definitely the causes and results of minority and majority communalism vary.
Minority communalism can now be viewed in two contexts – one of internal Muslim dissatisfaction of Indian state, the fear of the majority and the resulting discontent from it. The other is the external Islamic terrorism- the blend of external terror groups, their sympathizers in India and the support provided by corrupt Indian machinery.
The cause and effect of the first kind I have already discussed in detail in my previous post. To touch upon it, the home grown Islamic terrorism is projected more than required. They are the most degraded class of human society who kill innocent people to express their anger and disgust. But to see entire Muslim population of India involved in it is stupid and naïve. To kill an innocent person in Ahmedabad because someone has killed other innocent people in Godhra, leads to further alienation and growth of terrorism. While the real culprits should definitely be caught and butchered, we should be careful that innocents are not punished. No way, should one community be placed against another, as finally it will be the common men who will suffer while the rich and powerful politicians will enjoy their luxuries.
Coming to next – international Islamic terrorism, it is definitely a serious threat to our country. This is a powerful force with international funding, training and logistic support as well as sympathizers in our own country. And to fight them will need lot of improvement in our will and working. It will need a full overhaul of our intelligence and security systems. To fight them we need powerful, well motivated forces. How can you expect that one person will give his life for his nation without any hesitation when he knows after him no one will care a damn about his family, his family members will have to fight corruption at every step? [I hope u have seen movie “DHOOP”] How he can be a selfless son, when we all just care of ourselves and our needs? How can he be dedicated to his service, when he knows everyone –from Mantri to Santri- is just behind money and their selfish needs? The people are there, the forces are there, the laws are there – what we need is a correct implementation. We need full rights to the forces, a system where they are motivated and dedicated. Where they are sure once they are gone there are people and system to take care of their families and no one will harass them. No wonder while French surrendered so easily in WW II, so many Russians gave their lives – to save their Fatherland from the Hitler!
Now let us come to the majority communalism. Why all the media and intelligentsia of India are always behind Hindu radical groups, can’t they see the anger and frustration developing among Hindus?
The best way to divert the attention of public from the incompetence, corruption and wrong doing of the government is by raising sentimental issues such as caste, religion and race. From time to time when rulers are not able to satisfy their publics they raise a pseudo fear or pride in their people and exploit it for their personal gains. When the public of Germany was dissatisfied with the ill- governance, rampant corruption, unemployment, and impositions by the treat of Versailles, the Fascism rose its head in that country and what followed was horrible not only for that country but for entire world. An entire generation was left with its scars, a huge mankind killed, disabled or helpless. Millions became widow, orphans or lost their loves in the most scary war mankind ever witnessed. That is the result of majority communalism. In Kashmir, when majority became communal, we witnessed the mass exodus of Kashmir Hindus, which left Lakhs of people homeless and unemployed. While minority communalism leads to terrorism, the majority communalism leads to Fascism, genocide and civil wars! And though no one can justify the killing of innocent people in the name of terrorism its potential is much less than Fascism. Though Fascism takes time to develop, once in power it ensures that its parent country is doomed.
Q 16 Why is that radical Islamists in our country when pose as liberals always take refuge in the ideology of communism despite their own contempt for communism? You are free not to answer this question if you did not understand it. We can discuss this later.
Ans I understood your question but I don’t know if any of the Muslim radical organization supports any true communist organization. Since communists propose an Atheist theory, it is fundamentally against Radical elements of any religion. Rather as much as I am aware, Muslims have distanced themselves from CPI (Maoist) , despite their poor state. U can expand what you want to say.
http://www.indiapost.com/article/perspective/2469/
Q 17 You think India is a truly secular country? I mean, in terms of existing laws and the constitution
Ans. I think you are referring here to the Muslims appeasing laws in our constitution. You are right and they are not justified at all. Law should be same for every citizen of the country. These laws have been made by the Congress for Muslim appeasement. As I said earlier, Congress first ensures that Muslims remain underdeveloped and suffer and then Congress can project itself as their Messiah! No wonder working on same lines it is not taking any action against Raj Thackeray.
Q 18 What according to you is your solution to the Kashmir problem?
I wrote it in my blog I think just reproducing it here . the solution is same as for the rest of India. Stop looking for political gains in every issue, stop playing with the lives and sentiments of the people; they are on the verge of explosion.
Bring development, education, food and healthcare. Give social justice and freedom and most of the problems like Naxalism, terrorism and Kashmir problem will be solved automatically. But problem is no one actually wants to solve it!
The article by Arundhati Roy was extremely thought provoking as always. Her view points are always different from the common folk and one which look at the inner depth of any topic. But this time I beg to differ from her on many issues. The essence of her topic was Azadi for Kashmir.
I will first like to ask a simple question what is Azadi or freedom? Is it about calling a country yours? In that case ndians are free and happy, but we know majority of them are not. Is it about the freedom that your religion is proclaimed as the state religion? In that case all Pakistanis should be free and happy. But we know that it is one of the most disturbed countries in the world. Then what is freedom? Before answering this question let us look at the problems in Kashmir today.
I feel the earlier problems of Kashmir before 1990s were same as of entire India.But with a difference that India was never able to convince the people of Kashmir that they are a part of India. And rightly so, just because a king signs a piece of paper against people’s wishes doesn’t change their nationality. Kashmiri’s neither wanted to join India nor Pakistan and it was the influence of moderate Sufi culture of Kashmir which kept them away from communalism.
But like many of India’s provinces, after Independence Kashmir was also marginalized in cases of development and growth. While rest of the India just cursed its politician for their sorry states of affair Kasmiris had a different opinion. Their shrewd politicians capitalized on their belief and convinced them that the only solution to their problems is independence from Indian state. After strong pubic processions this was followed by armed militancy, logistically well supported by Pakistan. It helped Pakistan in Two ways- a revenge of what happened in 1971 as well as a distraction from its internal affairs. It helped even Indian state to divert public attention from issues of poverty and development to false nationalism. Instead of finding the root causes of the problem, they easily deployed the Army.
One cannot solely blame the Army for whatever atrocities were carried out by them. Military solution to freedom movements is never viable. The Indian army which suppressed the armed militancy itself got frustrated and took out this frustration on Kashmiri awam. To make the matters worse, successive Kasmiri government did nothing to improve the situation. They satisfied their appetite through corruption and never carried out, again, any serious development. Sick of their state governments policies
And frustrated with militancy and its aftereffects, Kashmir was like a bomb waiting to explode, The spark was provided again by our cheap politicians. While it was PDP minister only, who signed the land transfer it played full role in igniting the passions and making a issue out of nothing. Similarly Hindutava fascist forces brought element of national and religious pride to gain political mileage. But they have never perceived that people’s emotions will erupt like this! Now even the leaders are following the public and freedom is the buzzword.
But freedom against whom, and what type of freedom. Independent Kashmir? India also became independent 60 years back and still majority of us are suffering? And then it is going to increase the suffering for Kashmiri pundits, suffering since decades already. And what if Pakistan attacks an independent Kashmir, whom will they turn to then, back to India? The worst thing in her article was when she talks about people speaking publicly in favour of Pakistan. There is not an iota of doubt that even if Kashmir joins Pakistan; the suffering of its people is going to increase only! But still how can Indian citizens speak in favour of joining Pakistan and how can Indian people take it? Our state puts a pro poor person like Dr Binayak Sen in prison for conspiring against state when he just brought out the sufferings of Indian tribes at the hand of government. And what are they doing now, listening to pro Pakistani slogans. I cannot take it any cost, they all should be imprisoned!
Thirdly though I also favour, like her, pro people movements, but can India take the risk of free Kashmir? An independent Kashmir can bring a new wave of jehadis, due to their hatred against India. It can become an ally of USA. Many countries will try to woo it, considering its strategic location next to two emerging world powers. Then if we free Kashmir today, tomorrow any politician of any non Hindi state can woo its people with anti India slogan, for his personal gains! We cannot afford an independent Kashmir!
Then what is the solution? The most feasible solution is division of Jammu and Kashmir as the people of both parts have lost trust in each other. Second, giving something like Dominion status to Kashmir, their government, economy and culture but India’s defence. But before all this the urgent requirement is the end of selfish politics, restoration of faith In Kashmiri people about India and a true dream of development and upliftment of people
But i don't see any of our politicians interested in doing anything like that. What they will do is to maintain the status quo. This will frustrate the Kashmiri people again. And frustrated with no action, we can witness a new wave of terrorism. The final result being more deaths and more misery as there is no military solution to this problem. But who cares? No Kashmiri politician’s son becomes a militant and no Indian politician’s son joins the army. Finally it’s just the innocent public who will die again on both he sides.
The essence of freedom is freedom from poverty, hunger, illiteracy, unemployment and backwardness. And it is not the question of just Kashmir’s Azadi; it is the freedom that entire India is seeking!
http://beautifulliferocks.blogspot.com/2008/08/kashmir-burning.html
QUESTIONS ABOUT MY WORLD!!
Recently i found one person whose first remark to me was, " how many Pakistani pigs screwed your mother that you were born." this remark was due to my comment on Modi that he is responsible for the genocide in Gujarat in 2002.
though hurt i didn't respond rashly. Most of our countrymen , blinded by some philosophy or the other become intolerant and non logical in their thinking . this leads to blind following of others which is the root cause of most of the problems facing our country today. what is required is a logical discussion with facts and figures . In the words of Gautam Buddha " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. "
One should always judge his environment with an open mind. As Shaheed Bhagat Singh said,"Criticism and independent thinking are the two indispensable qualities of a revolutionary".
well finally the above said person started a logical discussion with me and what followed was a serious of questions by him and some answers by me. Most of these answers are my views which i have assimilated from books and sites . I have given the links at some places and have forgotten also at many places.
So the Q&A are:
Q1 Do you believe in the concept of nation or do you believe that universal brotherhood comes before nation? If yes, do you believe in the concept on nationalism and anti-nationalism?
1.) Nations did not exist since ages or in other words, nations kept forming and changing. For eg. , India under Mauryas was different from that of Guptas, Mughals and what it is today!
The main use of nation is to unite people in it, so that they can help each other economically. They can bring a common defence against an “outsider”. Till the time it is to protect urself against external dangers, to develop militarily and economically as a nation, it is a boon. However the ultimate aim of mankind is to develop the entire world, as all human beings are equal. Thus after human nationalism comes the stage of universal brotherhood, basically a world, where no one exploits each other and lives peacefully. Till there are “enemy “countries, we need to have nationalism, to protect good against evil and till that time nationalism is a boon.
But there are people and time, when to gain personal power; they exploit the feeling of nationalism. At this stage, they use nationalism as a tool to create fanaticism and in this the evil overpowers good. Under its influence, while the nation bleeds from inside, its leader show the cause outside – a hypothetical enemy which they held responsible for all the problems in the world. Hitler used it to gain power and kill millions in the world. This nationalism is a bane as it leads to loss of logic and reasoning.
Nationalism ... is like cheap alcohol. First it makes you drunk, then it makes you blind, then it kills you. ------------Dan Fried
Exactly this thing happened in Germany prior to WW II.
Q2 2) You said you admire Gandhi not for his ideology but for his leadership qualities.I don't buy that.If that is so you should address Hitler also as Hitlerji,after all he also displayed remarkable leadership qualities.So kindly clear my confusion
2.) I answered your this doubt earlier also. Gandhiji was a cunning man while Hitler was mad. Gandhiji did have a positive influence also in the history of India. His non-cooperation movement created a stir in India and produced many patriots. He raised his voice against various evils of the society and had a positive influence in various spheres. He never directly influenced others to kill fellow human beings. His means were good, but his end was bad. He was selfish for power and prestige and was fully aware that his means will not produce good results for India. But being an easier route which can fulfill his dreams, without ever facing a direct threat from British, he jeopardized India’s real freedom.
As far as I am aware, Hitler came to forefront to stop growth of communism and the easiest way to do it was to develop pseudo nationalism. To continuously feed it, he had to have some enemy, and this he produced by attacking each and every country and by killing fellow countrymen. He was a mad person.
Q 3) What is you definition of 'traitor'? In your opinion someone responsible for the unity and integrity of the country can also be a traitor? If yes,how?
3.) In my view, “Traitor” is a person who works against humanity. Thus, I may have a pro- Indian person who is exploiting the men of India as a traitor. Similarly I may have an anti-India person working for humanity, not at all traitor. For me, humanity is bigger than nationalism. Thus if tomorrow India attacks at Maldives and make sits own territory, I will oppose it. If someone is killing innocent people in the name of unity of country, in my view, he is a traitor.
Q4) What is your definition of 'development'? I am asking in terms of governance and administration.
4.) Now this is my fav question,
My development definition is in stages. The first stage is education, healthcare, food, living and sanitation for every citizen, which will be followed by research, scientific and medical development. I don’t see present development as true development, because it the development of services and consumer goods for the lavish living of “few”. While it oppresses the millions living next to it. For more about the economic part of it, my blog link-
http://beautifulliferocks.blogspot.com/2008/08/india-developing-emerging-global-power.html
Coming to governance and administration the present system (which includes your legislature, executive and judiciary) works for the rich and powerful. The police are used to give protection to netas and rich. Any opposition by the poor is crushed by this police. System is to throw people out of their land, as happening in all “development projects”, without giving proper compensation. All policies are against farmers and pro rich. In terms of labor reforms – rich are given free license to exploit labor.
True development is a system in which true definition of democracy is followed. All are treated equal. No minister’s son can walk free after raping daughter of a German in Goa, and no chief Minister can dream to become Prime Minister after being responsible for genocide.
http://www.countercurrents.org/shiva300407.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/gl-chamaria220906.htm
Q5) What are your parameters to judge the performance of any government in our current parliamentary system?
To tell you the truth, I consider our current parliamentary system, as the root cause of all the problems. It’s a pseudo – democracy, which works for the protection of assets of rich and exploits the poor. Due to this system only parties raise the unworthy issues of communalism, reservation, state division, cheap food grains and never work for the true development – the eradication of poverty and education and food for all! False hopes are given; fake programs are launched and behind them only policies are made which derail these programs. This is the reason the performance of all political parties from BJP /SP/BSP/ CPI to Congress is same, as none of them is actually interested in the true development of country!!
Still if you ask me to choose between the worse good, I will say any government which works for the upliftment of people, is doing a remarkable job. GDP growth rate, India shining, India emerging super power is all fake. Definitely the rich of our country are developing like anything, but the poor are going down further.
http://psainatharticles.blogspot.com/2007/08/feel-good-factory.html
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2105/stories/20040312007800400.htm
Q6) You seem to have a problem with 'killers',thats strange,you being a Bhagat Singh fan. You think killing is a crime,no matter who is killed and whatever be the objective? Or can killing ever be right? I understand,killing is always illegal,I am talking about right and wrong.If someone kills Modi tomorrow,would you not justify that?
Violence is like fire- when used for right purpose and under control its an efficient assest, the moment you loose control or use it for some wrong purpose , it leads to self destruction.
Bhagat Singh was wrongly projected as a terrorist mainly by the congress govt in independent India. he regretted the inefficient violent methods he used in his early years. In his words , violence should be the last resort in the struggle of freedom and equality. That doesn’t means he opposed violence but favoured its use for right purpose.
As per Gita, violence when not used for selfish purpose, but in self defence or for betterment of society, is justified. But we have to careful for what purpose it is used. Like use of violence by Islamic terrorists and Hindu fundamentalists group is used as a first tool, against someone weaker than them and for a wrong cause. But when used as a tool against stronger enemy, against his oppression, it is fully justified- because it is used for self defence.
So there is the simple rule: never use violence against someone weaker than you, and don’t hesitate to use it against suppression from someone stronger than you!
If someone kills Modi tomorrow, I will not justify it. Because I am against his ideology, not his personality. He should definitely be punished for genocide.
Q 7) Briefly describe Mohammed Ali Jinnah and B.R.Ambedkar to me just as you described Gandhi,Patel and Modi
Frankly telling you . I don’t have much idea about these people as they have not done anything great for India. They both were the product of western education and thus in a way or another supported British rule.
Jinnah was a rational person earlier , and he opposed the fundamental ideas of Muslim League, but later may be he became power thirsty or he actually felt that Muslim cannot progress under Congress rule. Anyways he supported the idea of Pakistan, which I feel was his biggest mistake.
Ambedkar , belongs to the class of few Indians whom British rule actually helped. Since Britishers used to differentiate based on race and were more interested in dividing Indians based on religion , few dalits got some upliftment. Ambedkar realized the fake propaganda of Gandhiji, for the upliftment of Harijans and thus rightly opposed him. He was loyal to the Britishers directly or indirectly. He understood that even in Independent India, dalits would suffer, and that is actually the case today.
Q8) I would like to know your views on Rajiv Gandhi and PV Narasimha Rao as well,briefly,I mean you have positive,negative or mixed views about them.
8.) Well both of them belonged to the same cheap class of politicians as other leaders of our great country from Nehru to Advani. Both had just 1 motive to retain power at any cost, earn a lot of money and work for the capitalist. Rajiv Gandhi suffered at Lanka due to the policies of his mother. He was an average person, but was not much interested in India’s actual progress. Continued communal politics to get minority vote, Bofors scandal and kept taking international laons so that one day Indian economy would be on verge of collapse and then IMF can has its way.
PV Narasimha Rao was same , bribed JMM , made lot of money, financially deregulated Indian economy to favour the rich and exploit the poor even more. He was also equally communal, who even let Babri Masjid fall, and so that he can later project himself to be the messiah of Muslims. But actually he was the messiah of only 1 class- the rich Indian capitalists.
Q 9) you have accused major political parties in our country of dividing the people. Can you elaborate a bit? I am particularly interested in knowing how Congress and BJP two main political parties today are filling their pockets and dividing people.
9. Nehru was a great intellectual who knew what was good and what was bad for India. But he suffered from a problem – to much thirst for popularity and power. He knew the congress policies are not going to take India very much ahead , at the same time he was scared of the revolutionary ways of Bhagat Singh- because that would have placed him in direct confrontation with British. So he took a mid-course which could guarantee his personal safety as well as would pave a way to make him a national leader.
He continued with his this “dil-dol” policy in the name of mixed economy. He knew it would be good for him to work in the interests of Indian capitalists, at the same time make some mild families which would keep the hope of people alive that a change would come one day.
But since he knew that his policies would not end poverty and exploitation, there should be some way to keep his electoral vote bank intact, even when people realize their poverty is not going to end. So he continued with Britishers favourite policy of “Divide and Rule”. For this his policies ensured that communal riots continue, Muslims remain alienated and undeveloped. Basically they should suffer and find their hope in Congress! Hindus were mostly pro-Congress as they believed Pakistan was for Muslims and India for Hindus.
Congress continued with this policy and every time before elections it would do some showoff to show itself as the saviors of Muslim. It kept the fear of alienation alive in Muslims and exploited this fear to gain vote bank. Not to mention, it was never interested in actual Muslim development rather ensured that they remain underdeveloped.
Another classic example of this divide and rule was Indira Gandhis support to Bhindarwale against SGPC. However it back fired and took the life of Indira Gandhi.I think there is no need to convince you that these leaders left no stone unturned to make good money for themselves and their parties. To quote a few are, nationalization of loss making private banks. Bofors scandal and there will be millions of them, away from the eye of public.
However, this policy of minority appeasement without doing anything constructive for them backfired on congress. The seeds of communal disharmony which they had sown were reaped by BJP. While Congress was banking on Muslim appeasement, BJP raised a new bogus fear- Hinduism is in danger! They started with babri Masjid episode – and most of the people (including me) thought this is a true national party, which actually wants the development of India! The riots after babri Masjid episode and then frowing Islamic terrorism proved a remarkable opportunity for BJP – the growth of fear in Hindus- their religion is in danger and thus secure your vote bank. Thus came the great BJP to power- bringing hopes to millions. But unlike, fascist of Germany, BJP was impatient, instead of consolidating their power, they started looting the national treasury, same way what Congress was doing! Obviously they had nothing to do with the actual growth of Hinduism. No wonder policy of Swaraj was immediately drooped and contracts were signed with US MNCs. To remind you, these US MNCs pose a greater danger to Hindu culture than any of the Islamic threat!
I hope there is no need to remind you, the way national secretary of BJP – Bangaru Laxman was caught taking bribes. They way coffins of our soldiers were sold, while they were giving their lives in war! The prices of Onion!!
To tell you frankly, all these political parties are together behind the camera. They have a pact we will shout and abuse each other in public but will not do anything to each other behind the scenes! Have you ever wondered, why BJP let Quaatrochi go freely, though it had the opportunity to expose Rajiv Gandhi in bofors scandal. Why no action was taken against Advani in Hawala case, against Lalu in Chara Ghotala, against Mayawati in Taj corridor, against George Fernanades in Bofors and Kargil coffins case. Because they all are nude together in bathroom, brother in arms to make money by publicly abusing each other , then laughing behind the curtain- see how we fooled the public in the name of God, caste , religion, race , sexuality but no one gives a corruption free government which brings development and reduces poverty!
though hurt i didn't respond rashly. Most of our countrymen , blinded by some philosophy or the other become intolerant and non logical in their thinking . this leads to blind following of others which is the root cause of most of the problems facing our country today. what is required is a logical discussion with facts and figures . In the words of Gautam Buddha " Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. "
One should always judge his environment with an open mind. As Shaheed Bhagat Singh said,"Criticism and independent thinking are the two indispensable qualities of a revolutionary".
well finally the above said person started a logical discussion with me and what followed was a serious of questions by him and some answers by me. Most of these answers are my views which i have assimilated from books and sites . I have given the links at some places and have forgotten also at many places.
So the Q&A are:
Q1 Do you believe in the concept of nation or do you believe that universal brotherhood comes before nation? If yes, do you believe in the concept on nationalism and anti-nationalism?
1.) Nations did not exist since ages or in other words, nations kept forming and changing. For eg. , India under Mauryas was different from that of Guptas, Mughals and what it is today!
The main use of nation is to unite people in it, so that they can help each other economically. They can bring a common defence against an “outsider”. Till the time it is to protect urself against external dangers, to develop militarily and economically as a nation, it is a boon. However the ultimate aim of mankind is to develop the entire world, as all human beings are equal. Thus after human nationalism comes the stage of universal brotherhood, basically a world, where no one exploits each other and lives peacefully. Till there are “enemy “countries, we need to have nationalism, to protect good against evil and till that time nationalism is a boon.
But there are people and time, when to gain personal power; they exploit the feeling of nationalism. At this stage, they use nationalism as a tool to create fanaticism and in this the evil overpowers good. Under its influence, while the nation bleeds from inside, its leader show the cause outside – a hypothetical enemy which they held responsible for all the problems in the world. Hitler used it to gain power and kill millions in the world. This nationalism is a bane as it leads to loss of logic and reasoning.
Nationalism ... is like cheap alcohol. First it makes you drunk, then it makes you blind, then it kills you. ------------Dan Fried
Exactly this thing happened in Germany prior to WW II.
Q2 2) You said you admire Gandhi not for his ideology but for his leadership qualities.I don't buy that.If that is so you should address Hitler also as Hitlerji,after all he also displayed remarkable leadership qualities.So kindly clear my confusion
2.) I answered your this doubt earlier also. Gandhiji was a cunning man while Hitler was mad. Gandhiji did have a positive influence also in the history of India. His non-cooperation movement created a stir in India and produced many patriots. He raised his voice against various evils of the society and had a positive influence in various spheres. He never directly influenced others to kill fellow human beings. His means were good, but his end was bad. He was selfish for power and prestige and was fully aware that his means will not produce good results for India. But being an easier route which can fulfill his dreams, without ever facing a direct threat from British, he jeopardized India’s real freedom.
As far as I am aware, Hitler came to forefront to stop growth of communism and the easiest way to do it was to develop pseudo nationalism. To continuously feed it, he had to have some enemy, and this he produced by attacking each and every country and by killing fellow countrymen. He was a mad person.
Q 3) What is you definition of 'traitor'? In your opinion someone responsible for the unity and integrity of the country can also be a traitor? If yes,how?
3.) In my view, “Traitor” is a person who works against humanity. Thus, I may have a pro- Indian person who is exploiting the men of India as a traitor. Similarly I may have an anti-India person working for humanity, not at all traitor. For me, humanity is bigger than nationalism. Thus if tomorrow India attacks at Maldives and make sits own territory, I will oppose it. If someone is killing innocent people in the name of unity of country, in my view, he is a traitor.
Q4) What is your definition of 'development'? I am asking in terms of governance and administration.
4.) Now this is my fav question,
My development definition is in stages. The first stage is education, healthcare, food, living and sanitation for every citizen, which will be followed by research, scientific and medical development. I don’t see present development as true development, because it the development of services and consumer goods for the lavish living of “few”. While it oppresses the millions living next to it. For more about the economic part of it, my blog link-
http://beautifulliferocks.blogspot.com/2008/08/india-developing-emerging-global-power.html
Coming to governance and administration the present system (which includes your legislature, executive and judiciary) works for the rich and powerful. The police are used to give protection to netas and rich. Any opposition by the poor is crushed by this police. System is to throw people out of their land, as happening in all “development projects”, without giving proper compensation. All policies are against farmers and pro rich. In terms of labor reforms – rich are given free license to exploit labor.
True development is a system in which true definition of democracy is followed. All are treated equal. No minister’s son can walk free after raping daughter of a German in Goa, and no chief Minister can dream to become Prime Minister after being responsible for genocide.
http://www.countercurrents.org/shiva300407.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/gl-chamaria220906.htm
Q5) What are your parameters to judge the performance of any government in our current parliamentary system?
To tell you the truth, I consider our current parliamentary system, as the root cause of all the problems. It’s a pseudo – democracy, which works for the protection of assets of rich and exploits the poor. Due to this system only parties raise the unworthy issues of communalism, reservation, state division, cheap food grains and never work for the true development – the eradication of poverty and education and food for all! False hopes are given; fake programs are launched and behind them only policies are made which derail these programs. This is the reason the performance of all political parties from BJP /SP/BSP/ CPI to Congress is same, as none of them is actually interested in the true development of country!!
Still if you ask me to choose between the worse good, I will say any government which works for the upliftment of people, is doing a remarkable job. GDP growth rate, India shining, India emerging super power is all fake. Definitely the rich of our country are developing like anything, but the poor are going down further.
http://psainatharticles.blogspot.com/2007/08/feel-good-factory.html
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2105/stories/20040312007800400.htm
Q6) You seem to have a problem with 'killers',thats strange,you being a Bhagat Singh fan. You think killing is a crime,no matter who is killed and whatever be the objective? Or can killing ever be right? I understand,killing is always illegal,I am talking about right and wrong.If someone kills Modi tomorrow,would you not justify that?
Violence is like fire- when used for right purpose and under control its an efficient assest, the moment you loose control or use it for some wrong purpose , it leads to self destruction.
Bhagat Singh was wrongly projected as a terrorist mainly by the congress govt in independent India. he regretted the inefficient violent methods he used in his early years. In his words , violence should be the last resort in the struggle of freedom and equality. That doesn’t means he opposed violence but favoured its use for right purpose.
As per Gita, violence when not used for selfish purpose, but in self defence or for betterment of society, is justified. But we have to careful for what purpose it is used. Like use of violence by Islamic terrorists and Hindu fundamentalists group is used as a first tool, against someone weaker than them and for a wrong cause. But when used as a tool against stronger enemy, against his oppression, it is fully justified- because it is used for self defence.
So there is the simple rule: never use violence against someone weaker than you, and don’t hesitate to use it against suppression from someone stronger than you!
If someone kills Modi tomorrow, I will not justify it. Because I am against his ideology, not his personality. He should definitely be punished for genocide.
Q 7) Briefly describe Mohammed Ali Jinnah and B.R.Ambedkar to me just as you described Gandhi,Patel and Modi
Frankly telling you . I don’t have much idea about these people as they have not done anything great for India. They both were the product of western education and thus in a way or another supported British rule.
Jinnah was a rational person earlier , and he opposed the fundamental ideas of Muslim League, but later may be he became power thirsty or he actually felt that Muslim cannot progress under Congress rule. Anyways he supported the idea of Pakistan, which I feel was his biggest mistake.
Ambedkar , belongs to the class of few Indians whom British rule actually helped. Since Britishers used to differentiate based on race and were more interested in dividing Indians based on religion , few dalits got some upliftment. Ambedkar realized the fake propaganda of Gandhiji, for the upliftment of Harijans and thus rightly opposed him. He was loyal to the Britishers directly or indirectly. He understood that even in Independent India, dalits would suffer, and that is actually the case today.
Q8) I would like to know your views on Rajiv Gandhi and PV Narasimha Rao as well,briefly,I mean you have positive,negative or mixed views about them.
8.) Well both of them belonged to the same cheap class of politicians as other leaders of our great country from Nehru to Advani. Both had just 1 motive to retain power at any cost, earn a lot of money and work for the capitalist. Rajiv Gandhi suffered at Lanka due to the policies of his mother. He was an average person, but was not much interested in India’s actual progress. Continued communal politics to get minority vote, Bofors scandal and kept taking international laons so that one day Indian economy would be on verge of collapse and then IMF can has its way.
PV Narasimha Rao was same , bribed JMM , made lot of money, financially deregulated Indian economy to favour the rich and exploit the poor even more. He was also equally communal, who even let Babri Masjid fall, and so that he can later project himself to be the messiah of Muslims. But actually he was the messiah of only 1 class- the rich Indian capitalists.
Q 9) you have accused major political parties in our country of dividing the people. Can you elaborate a bit? I am particularly interested in knowing how Congress and BJP two main political parties today are filling their pockets and dividing people.
9. Nehru was a great intellectual who knew what was good and what was bad for India. But he suffered from a problem – to much thirst for popularity and power. He knew the congress policies are not going to take India very much ahead , at the same time he was scared of the revolutionary ways of Bhagat Singh- because that would have placed him in direct confrontation with British. So he took a mid-course which could guarantee his personal safety as well as would pave a way to make him a national leader.
He continued with his this “dil-dol” policy in the name of mixed economy. He knew it would be good for him to work in the interests of Indian capitalists, at the same time make some mild families which would keep the hope of people alive that a change would come one day.
But since he knew that his policies would not end poverty and exploitation, there should be some way to keep his electoral vote bank intact, even when people realize their poverty is not going to end. So he continued with Britishers favourite policy of “Divide and Rule”. For this his policies ensured that communal riots continue, Muslims remain alienated and undeveloped. Basically they should suffer and find their hope in Congress! Hindus were mostly pro-Congress as they believed Pakistan was for Muslims and India for Hindus.
Congress continued with this policy and every time before elections it would do some showoff to show itself as the saviors of Muslim. It kept the fear of alienation alive in Muslims and exploited this fear to gain vote bank. Not to mention, it was never interested in actual Muslim development rather ensured that they remain underdeveloped.
Another classic example of this divide and rule was Indira Gandhis support to Bhindarwale against SGPC. However it back fired and took the life of Indira Gandhi.I think there is no need to convince you that these leaders left no stone unturned to make good money for themselves and their parties. To quote a few are, nationalization of loss making private banks. Bofors scandal and there will be millions of them, away from the eye of public.
However, this policy of minority appeasement without doing anything constructive for them backfired on congress. The seeds of communal disharmony which they had sown were reaped by BJP. While Congress was banking on Muslim appeasement, BJP raised a new bogus fear- Hinduism is in danger! They started with babri Masjid episode – and most of the people (including me) thought this is a true national party, which actually wants the development of India! The riots after babri Masjid episode and then frowing Islamic terrorism proved a remarkable opportunity for BJP – the growth of fear in Hindus- their religion is in danger and thus secure your vote bank. Thus came the great BJP to power- bringing hopes to millions. But unlike, fascist of Germany, BJP was impatient, instead of consolidating their power, they started looting the national treasury, same way what Congress was doing! Obviously they had nothing to do with the actual growth of Hinduism. No wonder policy of Swaraj was immediately drooped and contracts were signed with US MNCs. To remind you, these US MNCs pose a greater danger to Hindu culture than any of the Islamic threat!
I hope there is no need to remind you, the way national secretary of BJP – Bangaru Laxman was caught taking bribes. They way coffins of our soldiers were sold, while they were giving their lives in war! The prices of Onion!!
To tell you frankly, all these political parties are together behind the camera. They have a pact we will shout and abuse each other in public but will not do anything to each other behind the scenes! Have you ever wondered, why BJP let Quaatrochi go freely, though it had the opportunity to expose Rajiv Gandhi in bofors scandal. Why no action was taken against Advani in Hawala case, against Lalu in Chara Ghotala, against Mayawati in Taj corridor, against George Fernanades in Bofors and Kargil coffins case. Because they all are nude together in bathroom, brother in arms to make money by publicly abusing each other , then laughing behind the curtain- see how we fooled the public in the name of God, caste , religion, race , sexuality but no one gives a corruption free government which brings development and reduces poverty!
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