abhay
@ Kapil
a true communist or rather true human being will never fight for religion , he fights for hunger and poverty and equal rights to all.
Because for him it doesn't matter whether you are a Hindu or Muslim or Jew or Sikh, because in all religions its the rich who are happy and having the luxuries of life, while the poor suffer and die for religion!!
Throughout his life Bhagat singh opposed communal ism as he new it is the tool in the hands of politicians to divert peoples attention from underdevelopment to stupid issues..
that is what is happening now again , people are getting polarized in the name of religion while both Congress and BJP are busy in making money when they come to power by selling our nation to US companies .
I oppose SIMI and RSS in equal terms . A terrorist should be punished, religion doesnt mater in that. but at the same time to label an entire community as terrorist is naive and stupid , and it leads to destruction of our own country!!
Do u feel buddy that ABJ Abdul kalam or A R REhman are terrorist ??
if no , how do u know Zafar or Truely here are terrorist??/
I will suggest you read Arundhati Roys books then u will realize she opposes all communal parties and talks about true development !!
busy abhay
@ kapil
now a clarification about communists of India today..
But i hope u dont mean that CPI (M) , CPI and other bunch of jokers, those good for nothing who are completely opposite of a communist. A communist can never support SEZ and CPI (M) has killed its own people for SEZ.
they do only bakwas and nothing else. they are pseudo communists like their Chinese brothers and Lula of Brazil who preach Communism and follow Capitalism. Muh mein Ram bagal mein Churi.....
But there are people who are asking right questions and giving right answers , for that u will have to read Roy's books yaar!!
Sumit
abhay
@ Sumit
ya i am happy to side with arundhati roy atleast she is living in India and working for Indians,,
and i will suggest u to leave this community and join SARAH PAULIN community your comments there will be more correct and appropriate !!
yeah this is what you communists can do well.. If you have no answer to the the issues raised by an individual then attack his persona on flimsiest of excuses....
I do not need any certificate of indianness from birdbrains like you...
Lets not forget
@truely
I may have gone overboard with my last comments but we(lot of hindus) are frustrated, angry and feeling helpless at the attack on Hindus from all quarters...
If this frustration is not addressed, then this anger will explode like a volcano sweeping away everything that comes in its path... be aware of that and I am definately not being overboard now with my comments....
Just look at Abhay, Apoorv and other Hindu "sounding" names. These guys may not be practising Hindus but they do hav hindu sounding names.. But they are most of the time criticising hindus, bashing bjp, abusing RSS and loo behold are still alive and kicking....
Now imagine the same scenario where a muslim criticizes Islam? Next day He will be on Internet with his neck being severed from the rest of the body...This is the diff..
When i say reform...i mean havng the tenacity to take in crticizm and have an open mind to other religion and ability for peaceful coexitence....which is completely lacking...
Last time when this happened was with Hitler's nazi party when the entire community when fascist and crazy.. same is happening with u guys..
so ponder over and think...
Lets not forget
@abhay
I am in consonance with ur communism comments..
But here is the problem:::
On a diffrent posts in a diifferent thread u had posted quite derogatory, blasphemous, disgusting and unprintable commnets abt Lord Ram...
U posted those bcoz of the rape of nun in Orissa. Ok. Now try to post a comment on Islam bcoz of suicide bombings, terrorism, Women in Burkha, Polygamy, brutal purging of other religions etc. etc. etc. etc..... I know u care for ur well being ,,,,,
U frequently abuse Hindus, bash BJP RSS 20 times in a day...BUt never try to analyse why BJP is the SECOND LARGEST party in India and was in power in 1999 although it came into existence only in 1980's ... what is the cause of the metoiric rise...
U have an alibi in the form of "communal politics" but then y do people buy this communal politics.. its bcoz majorityof hindus feel threatened and feel helpless...
and it gets manisfested in votes for bjp and now acts of retribution and revenge terrorism...
Beating BJP black and blue will never solve this problem.... u need to ANALYSE and change ur stand....
Click to chat truly
@Kapil
I may have gone overboard with my last comments
glad that u accepted the truth
but we(lot of hindus) are frustrated, angry and feeling helpless at the attack on Hindus from all quarters...
what has frustrated and angered you guys so much
If this frustration is not addressed, then this anger will explode like a volcano sweeping away everything that comes in its path... be aware of that and I am definately not being overboard now with my comments....
are u talking about something like gujrat riots all over india
Just look at Abhay, Apoorv and other Hindu "sounding" names. These guys may not be practising Hindus but they do hav hindu sounding names.. But they are most of the time criticising hindus, bashing bjp, abusing RSS and loo behold are still alive and kicking....
'Just look at Abhay, Apoorv and other Hindu "sounding" names.'good sarcasm.
criticising hindues?????where???is hinduism limited to support bjp and rss.were bjp and rss formed by some god???then y??
Now imagine the same scenario where a muslim criticizes Islam? Next day He will be on Internet with his neck being severed from the rest of the body...This is the diff..
hey is salman rushdie and taslima nasrin dead...
When i say reform...i mean havng the tenacity to take in crticizm and have an open mind to other religion and ability for peaceful coexitence....which is completely lacking...
Last time when this happened was with Hitler's nazi party when the entire community when fascist and crazy.. same is happening with u guys..
so ponder over and think...
i told you we can discuss these things on some other community...not this one plz...
busy abhay
@ Sumit
Tere muh lagkar koi faida nahi
i wonder if tht masterni of urs.. Sarah Paulin ever raised any remarkable q except spending some 85million $ on her wardrobe...
u r not diff fm her...... so keep barking as always All the best
busy abhay
@ Kapil
I am really glad my friend that u r following my postings in other communities as well
DID u really read that post? Did u notice that q mark after the sentence Bhagwan Ram was a rapist???
I love bhagwan Ram , not as a god but as a remarkable individual , a person who fought against injustice but always followed the rules to toto.. that is why he is called Purushottam Ram . And what is happening people using his name are doing acts of Ravana . Raping a woman , don't u think these people are briniging a bad name to Ram more then Islamic terrorists?? i love Ram and i will denounce all those who use his name to do criminal acts..
now my view about Islam..... it is as stupid a religion as Judaism , Hinduism or Christianity. It also propagates many wrong things , other than good things like love all human beings. Mahummad left one of his many wives becoz she was left alone and came back with another carvan...they all are same .... preaching non sense..
and what makes Islam worst was its nature not to accept any criticism . And no wonder this makes Muslims allover the world most underdeveloped and illogical...
Now about Hinduism . what made Hinduism great was its flexibility and acceptance to other religions and that is why it survived against Buddhism , Islam and what not..
And this is exactly the reason why i critcize RSS becoz now they are chaging this nature of Hinduism... making it a fundamentalist religion and this will prove disaster for the country...
and finally who gains Congress and BJP alternately..
busy abhay
but then y do people buy this communal politics??????????
right q but nothing new Napoleon said " religion is a tool in the hands of poor to make fool out of common people."
Since birth u are told abt God and religion.... u saw people around u become fanatic for that and u follow their example...
If some party comes and tell u we will remove poverty from India , u will not pay any attention but if some one comes and says we will bring the glory back to Hinduism , u will immediately go and vote for that party..
Never caring what it is actually doing?? Is it working for the people? BJP did anything for the common man other than filling its own pockets??? same as congress
Religion is the easist way to incite the people and make them losse their common sense and then they cant see what is right and what is wrong...
who gains?? those bastards who spoiled the name of my Lord Ram!!!
busy abhay
FEAR
Fear is the root of all the evils.... and this is the thing explited worl over for generations
ever wondered why Aarushi case was so widely covered , while SUICIDE of ! lakh famrers in Maharahtra hardly figures anywhere in media???
Becoz u care damn about that farmers , but when u see Aarushi case u feel it happening it to someone next to ur home and this generates fear and this brings TRP ratings to channel.
But what is lost? while people remained glued to news channels thinking about Aarushi , millions of people die of hunger, no one questions why those farmers committed suicide? What is the reason and who is responsible??
http://www.countercurrents.org/sharma220607.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/shiva300407.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/gl-shiva150205.htm
http://www.countercurrents.org/gl-shiva220205.htm
Since the starting of human civilization rulers have exploited this feeling of fear to gain political and economic gains for themselves. No wonder the max deaths in world are caused by religious wars, and they didnt involve only Islam.... u can check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Wars_of_Religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#Population_changes:_Wars_against_the_Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
The legacy continues today.....
islamic clerics say Islam is under threat , start Jihad against Kafirs. VHP says Hinduism is under threat , kill all the Muslims around u, Jews says they are under threat and keep exploiting millions of Palestinians, Christians say they are under threat and under the pretext of war on terror attack Iraq for oil and kill millions of innocent Iraqia in the bargain.
what they all are doing is exploit the fear in common men, let thim kill each other we will gain power and enjoy the riches. What happened to poverty and hunger , who cares , Religion is more imp than bread and Holy wars more imp than development!!!
APOORV
@ kapil
Do u really think that RSS is a true representative of Indian culture today or even of Hinduism???
And for ur info , even I denounce Terrorists killing in the name of Allah , but at the same time should i attack any muslim , because 1 Muslim is doing such acts?? things are not so simple as they appear my friend.....
in case u have inclination and time , i think this will explain my stand
http://apoorv-life.blogspot.com/2008/10/bomb-blast.html
@ Abhay
i fully agree with ur comments abt exploitation of fear ..... just hope all of our countrymen realize this and India , the land of Gautam Buddha, doesn't become the land of holy wars!!!
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Well, I m not following you on any community, but was actually part of that community but when i saw those comments, i decided to leave the community in disgust. I was seething in Anger but couldnt do much u know...
I am also glad that u have accepted the basic flaw in Islam which is its inability to take in criticism which has turned its followers the most obscrantists, illogocal and radical sections of our society and the entire world...
But would then link acts of radicalisation to Allah himself..Post a new thread about Allah linking terrorisn to him??Thats where u r wrong...
Why would a serving Lt Col in Indian Army choose to indulge in brutal acts of bombings and killings???
It is bcoz the Hindus feel it is time to Defend their motherland and their religion when the Congress League govt turned to minorities for their Bread and Butter and dont care abt them,,, it is utmost shameful but its true..
Also In the public domain, the communist leaders are sworn enemies of BJP and hindus... There is little difference between CPI/ CPI(M) and Muslim leaugue or Samajwadi Party...They are all gunning for minority votes.. They shd be ready to reform all religions not just hindus...
Analyse this::: The communist movement in India is older than the RSS and even as old as Congress . Then y is that it has pretty much FAILED in the political space and apart from one or 2 states has no presence elsewhere even after so many years???
The answer is simple... "THEY ARE NOT LIKEABLE".
1)They abuse Hindus all the time. They become Rationalist for Hindus and Religious for Muslims... They may be atheist but majority of the country is deeply religious... Look at communist govts eleswhere... they are not ALLERGIC to religion publicly and are not atleast not biased.. Mayb u can pass my message to them...
2) They crib aby old stuff all the time..
2) Look at it from this angle::: There is so much competition for Muslim votes... But there is only one party which goes for Hindu votes...U have more chances to win here..
busy abhay
@ kapil
Kya yaar i was expecting some gd , new ans but u repeated the same old communist stuff
Okk i repeat wat i said last abt so called Indian communists
@ kapil
now a clarification about communists of India today..
But i hope u dont mean that CPI (M) , CPI and other bunch of jokers, those good for nothing who are completely opposite of a communist. A communist can never support SEZ and CPI (M) has killed its own people for SEZ.
they do only bakwas and nothing else. they are pseudo communists like their Chinese brothers and Lula of Brazil who preach Communism and follow Capitalism. Muh mein Ram bagal mein Churi.....
But there are people who are asking right questions and giving right answers , for that u will have to read Roy's books yaar!!
busy abhay
now abt minoirty appeasement
What have ur above said parties have done for Muslims or for anyone else??
or what BJP has done for Hindus??
yaar point is all these parties are doing nothing for anyone except for themselves. They are just dividing the country like what Britishers did long back.
need is to stop them and not support 1 of them becoz they "speak" in favour of our religion.Because when BJP also comes to power , onion sells above Rs 60/kg, Bangaru Laxaman takes bribe and George Fernendes drinks money in arms deal, when our poor soldier die in KArgil.
they are as worthless as Congress/SP/BSP/CPI(M)/CPI or any other bunch of jokers.
U really feel BJP will do something for the Hindus if it comes to power?? Ok may be it will bring POTA , arrest more Muslims, then u feel India will become safe from terrorism?? No it will increase , I can give u this in writing need is for peace and justice and above all development.
see the state of India 60 years after independence
http://www.wakeupcall.org/administration_in_india/poverty_line.php
and all Congress/SP/BSP/CPI(M)/CPI plus ur BJP (which has ruled 5 yrs in centre and many yrs in state) did nothing except filling their own pockets
still u feel they will do something gd for India???
busy abhay
And lets us leave Communism and capitalism and religion
lets come to humanism. thts wat we are here for humanity to help people in distress
let it be any ism, but we should overcome poverty , hunger and underdevelopment.
and thing is none of our political parties are interested in this
see a study by great environmentalist Vandana Shiva
http://www.countercurrents.org/glo-shiva050404.htm
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Your views and ideas suggest a highly developed thinking mind and objective assessment of situations-especially the political ones...
Nobody can deny your statements as they are perfectly correct......
But dude, how do we correct the political situation which has taken our country into a completely different trajectory and inertia from where we may never be able to return back...
I am also not a die hard supporter of any particular party, including BJP.. but i am pissed off, angry and frustrated at the continued attacks on one party and religion by all concerned... As long as there is fairness and justice, people will be happy but we need to be careful that Injustices can lead to revolt ... and its not just one party or religion which has the sole right to feel "threatened, angry, helpless"".
Key is, "Justice without Prejudice"
So let me ask you this::: How do get out of the muddle that we find ourselve in??? How do we lead our country to path of peace and tranquility where there is justice and liberty for all???
busy abhay
@ Kapil
thanks buddy for ur comments
the first step of any solution is to first realize the problem and i think u are near to it!!!
I can understand ur frustration with everyone opposing pro-Hindu parties...as i am seeing it happening with most of the Hindus around me .....
there is a growing fear among Hindus and anger against Islamic terrorists.....
But the same thing holds in Muslims also- they are scared and alienated and in a cocoon , and this produces more terrorists !!!
thus this is a mutual process, why intellectuals oppose pro-Hindu more than Islamic??
1 There is no doubt that Islamic terrorists they are wrong , so there is no argument abt it but people supporting Hindu religious fanaticism - it can be argued and thts why there is more opposition
2. this is the birth of Hindu Fascism in India , the seeds which Britishers sowed , are bearing fruits now...and if it is not stopped now, it will be very dangerous for our country
well to explain it more u need to read history yaar... if u don't mind u can start with my blog...
there is a book by Nirad C chaudhari.... abt religious fundamentalism u can read tht ,
coming to ur q
So let me ask you this::: How do get out of the muddle that we find ourselve in??? How do we lead our country to path of peace and tranquility where there is justice and liberty for all???
well there is no direct ans i can give u...... becoz there is no 1 standard solution.... people are trying few things... like Medha Patekar ..........
dont get agitated
but seriously telling u , read the books of Arundhati Roy , they will give u gd insight of wats alternatives r there
becoz u also know if BJP comes to power, it is gng to increase the problem , because they themselves never want this problem to solves,because this is wat brings them to power and then they can make millions....
Lets not forget
@ Abhay
Was tied up with some work, so a delayed response....
Well the hope is that, we people, amongst our small group atleast on Orkut, comes up with some plausible solution to the crisis facing our great nation...
To that effect, we need to understand why hindus are feeling the way they are and talking law into their own hands.... The reason has been the unbridled, unremorseful, unstoppable force of Islamic fundamentalism which has matured into Islamic terrorism... "Hindus are Reactionary in nature. They look at Taliban, Pakistan, our own minorities, and see that when these guys kill people, other people listen to them, they agree to their demands etc. So they are simply trying to MIMIC the same aggressiveness and brutality in their own functioning". How to stop this::: "Face Islamic terrorirm HEAD ON." For this the secularists need to throw the "BIASED ATTiTUDE" that so currently characterizes them.... Criticize and devote time to NEUTRALIZE extermism of any type...
So lets look at Islamic terrorism:::a lot of people including myslef are trying to understand whats causing Muslims all over the world to turn aggressive and start killing people..
You have mentioned in ur piece""But the same thing holds in Muslims also- they are scared and alienated and in a cocoon , and this produces more terrorists !!!"
Consider this:::
Bali, Indonesia in 2001. More than 200 humans were butchered and massacared in a series of blasts??? Indoneasia is the largest Islamic country, so y on earth would they feel in ur words "scared and alienated and in a cocoon"
My analysis suggests this is a worldwide phenomenon where the wahhabi sect of ISlam is trying to impose its will over the entire world through the means of the sword...as they know best...
The same is being done in India albeit at a smaller scale..and after many many years of subjugation, Hindus are getting militairized and its understandable as they are doing it in Self defence...
Lets not forget
You suugested few personalities and their work towards possible solution roadmap...
Nirad Chaudhary, Arundhati, Medha, Romilla Thapar...
You need to read the following to understand the perspective from the other end:
http://www.indpride.com/screaming%20hatred%20against%20hindus.html
Ashok Singhal, Praveen Tagodia, etc..
While the former are far left extermists while the latter are far right extremists...
And why shd i read their books and implement their suggestions.??..they abuse Hindus, want to terminate our culture,, Neutralise the rise of BJP while turning BLIND to ISLAMIC FASCISM... There is no meeting point my dear friend as they are extremists in their own sense
Lets not forget
Let me take you back to an era in the 80s when proabaly we were not born or were very young..
In the 80s, India faced a brutal terrorism which was of a differeent hue and flavour:::
Sikh Terrorism.
It was as brutal as any terrorism can be.. And Today where is that terrorism?
It was defeated.. it was beaten by few brave soldiers of Hind who didnt care for their lives. It was not solved by Arundhati and Medha. If these ladies had their way then our country would have been definately been killed by now...
it was defeated because there was RETALIATION to every AGGRESSION but the people were also given an option to return to non violent ways...
A case in point is also Chechanya, Russia...
Lets not forget
@abhay
On a completely different note,,, when i visited one of you blogs that you have displayed on your home page, i was stuck by one thought :::
Almost all the articles in the whole blog are so ONE SIDED.. If the blog owners believe in democracy and healthy debate... there has to be some views from the other side as well.....It was astonishing to read the articles...AMAZINGLY ALL THE ARTICLES HAVE ONE UNDERLYING CURRENT:: HINDUS ARE WORSE THAN ANIMALS, RISE OF MILITANT HINDUISM, NEUTRALIZING HINDU FASCISM, TERROR ATTACKS A RESULT OF GUJARAT, BABRI MASJID, AYODHYA, ORISSA, BANAGLORE, KERALA, CHICKMANGALORE, ETC. ETC. ETC....
havent we heard these before::: One FEEDBACK::: Variety is the spice of life::: BRING SOME DIVERGENT VIEWS...
busy abhay
Comeon yaar I am not writing a fictional story here to get some popularity . THis is not a shobha DEs article - that i need to add variety to it. I will only support what i believe is right and oppose what I believe is wrong- though they may differ from your views!
well you have again repeated the same old things never thinking back - i have opposed pseudo communist partied and islamic org in same tone as BJP and Congress.
So there is no point in repeating things. i am writing few things ion my blog- in case they appeal to u , u may read them-else you can continue with ur views
Gopi
Capitalism is already dead
What we have here is not capitalism.
If it were really market economics then all these big corporates would have closed down (taking lot of the populace with them) and would have been replaced by new corporates. That would have been "free and fair" market. What we see here is all corporates, who would scream blue murder if government were to "interfere" in businesses/markets, are running with huge begging bowl to the government to bail them out with tax-payers hard-earned money!!
Take UBS for instance. It was notorious for paying Swiss citizens one of the lowest savings deposit rates in the world. Now it wants Swiss citizens to pay for its bad times. Any guesses what happens when the good times are back? (Will UBS pay Swisses good or atleast competitive deposit rates?)
One of the critics of the US bailout bill had said that in Capitalism government should not interfere at all. The government interference only shows its NOT capitalism. Its the flawed, self-serving logic (not even theory) of these corporations: Dont stop of us from making money by hook or crook but please help us when we are not making money.
Gopi
Following up with the example of UBS.
Read this[http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7741561.stm]. While investors were losing money, UBS executives paid themselves big bonuses and were finally bailed out by Swiss tax-payers.
This isn't capitalism or free market; its sheer fraud.
An average citizen of a capitalist state has been cheated like this since years.
Jawahar
Abhay dude!!, you are my hero!! [:)]
Impeccable arguments, unbiased understanding of facts!! I applaud your perspicacity and I share the pain you go through, looking at the state of affairs in our country, infact the world-over!!!
The glorification of ideas like nationalism, communalism, and what not, very shrewdly employed by the rich few to divert the masses from the immediate injustice catered to them on a daily basis.
I want to let you know that I totally empathize with your view point and I am happy to see you voice your opinions with the incisive clarity that you did. Keep at it my friend!!
Jawahar
If I may add..
Abhay, in addition to the solution you were suggesting, the first thing is awareness, awareness that has to spread among our young. History, unbiased and with all the right perspectives, so that people dont indulge in the mindless hatred that our country is headed towards. Awareness of unbiased facts, and proper historical tutelage, what our country stands for, if you may...
Dec 11 (2 days ago)
Jawahar
Also, for the people who are under-informed, rather ill-informed, looking the the above posts!, Please watch this videos to gain some insight!
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=money+masters&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#
Please make sure you understand what capitalism stand for and its track record in the last 500 years before you take any stand!!
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